What is known about Tampere lorry accident ?

[Marsh04]

Did the driver just drove onto the zebra crossing girl or the girl was trapped under back wheels? Any account of the eye witnesses? I just read the news again and again at different places but haven't really seem any account of how it happened.

Anyway very sad and tragic accident.

[riku2]

it was not a "zebra crossing" in the english sense of the word.

in english:
A) zebra crossing: stripes across the road. no traffic lights for either cars or pedestrians. It is on a straight section of road. not a junction.
B) pelican crossing: controlled by traffic lights. pedestrians press a button and the lights for vehicles will turn to red and the pedestrian sees a green man.
C) pedestrian crossing at traffic lights: pedestrians cross at the same place where there is a traffic light controlled junction. Normally there is a red/green man for pedestrians also which may be in sync with the lights for vehicles or have it's own phase (eg traffic lights go red for everyone and only then there is a green man).

In england only type A has stripes painted on the road, but in finland types A, B and C have them. Which explains why YLE called the tampere one a zebra crossing.

The tampere incident happened at type C. There was a green light for vehicles but when they turned they should pay attention to pedestrians crossing at the side, since those pedestrians have a green man. If there is a green arrow for vehicles then this tells drivers they do not have to stop for pedestrians (since they will see a red man). No green arrow means there MAY be a green man for crossing pedestrians.

On YLE I don't understand the "shared" part of their statement

Many Finnish road crossings simultaneously show green lights to pedestrians and to turning traffic. Under the system, the official responsibility for safety is shared between drivers and those crossing the road

Surely somebody has priority in that situation. Or does the law really say that it's equal/no priority to either car or pedestrian which seems total madness.

In my opinion road design in finland depends too much on there not being a lot of traffic: unmarked priorities. zebra crossings across four lane roads where no sane person would brave trying to stop the traffic (Mannerheimintie), crossings right at the entrance/exit of roundabouts or right at T junctions. The designers (if they do actually design roads in finland) have assumed that drivers are paying attention and fully aware of all rules of the road. The road design should instead force the drivers to behave properly, not leave it to the hope that they behave properly.

[Marsh04]

On YLE I don't understand the "shared" part of their statement

Surely somebody has priority in that situation. Or does the law really say that it's equal/no priority to either car or pedestrian which seems total madness.

It doesn't mean it's equal, pedestrians have the priority but only if they use it sensibly and reasonably. Vehicles have to give way to pedestrians but a pedestrian is not supposed to make a sudden move. If a driver has observed that there is no danger in completing the turn and is turning at a reasoable speed, if a pedestrian in a hurry runs infront of it and is hit by the vehicle it will be the pedestrian's fault.

As you said that the rules assume that everybody knows the rules and especially children will use their senses makes it a bit risky business. But on the other hand if lights are not simultaneous it would make traffic unnecessarily slow in most of the cases. The right approach , and which I believe is practised to some extent, would be to make lights separate in the centres of the towns and near schools but simultaneous at other crossings.

[ajdias]

I think it is worrying how many of these occurred with so called professional drivers. This is the 3rd or 4th incident involving a lorry or a taxi driver in a short time. If these guys don't know to look out for children and pedestrians when turning (and you always have to give them the right of way when turning, unless they've got a red) what can be expected of regular folk?

This is the dark side of people following and trusting the rules, almost blindly. We teach kids to follow them and they expect that it will work out because others will do the same. Until it doesn't because others don't do their part, or the rules are ambivalent. It is probably not a coincidence that these accidents happened just when the schools are starting.

[Oho]

I think it is worrying how many of these occurred with so called professional drivers. This is the 3rd or 4th incident involving a lorry or a taxi driver in a short time. If these guys don't know to look out for children....

A cab passing another car stopped in front of a pedestrian crossing is one thing but these truck accidents are a bit different as after starting to turn its difficult if not neigh impossible to see a small kid stepping right in front of the vehicle. If the pictures from Tampere provide any clues as to what happened it almost seems the girl was hit by the trailer not the truck itself. Right is not might, perhaps children should be thought to be more mindful about heavy traffic rather than their right of way at pedestrian crossings.

[riku2]

The right approach , and which I believe is practised to some extent, would be to make lights separate in the centres of the towns and near schools but simultaneous at other crossings.

If you visit cities in Japan or Holland you'll see quite a different approach to traffic safety. Instead of separating vehicles and pedestrians in a "that's yours this is mine" approach they have the concept of 'shared space'. The same applies to exhibition road in Kensington in London

http://urbankchoze.blogspot.fi/2014/04/ ... treet.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... SAFER.html

Exhibition road is light years of anything they have in big cities here. On the blog link above the street in Lasalle, Montréal reminds me of streets in Lauttasaari. Massively wide, enough for four or more cars across when in reality one lane each way would be plenty considering the low traffic volumes.

No doubt many traffic lights will be converted now thanks to the deaths of the children recently. In the same knee jerk fashion that a 40km/h limit was imposed on Huopalahdentie after an accident there, in a totally inconsistent approach to traffic safety although one that could be done quickly and at low cost.

[Marsh04]

Just had a look at statistics and if we keep in mind the driving conditions in winter and autumn, Finland actually performs quite well.

[riku2]

Just had a look at statistics and if we keep in mind the driving conditions in winter and autumn, Finland actually performs quite well.

The figures I find always show Finland trailing behind Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Iceland both for driver deaths and pedestrian deaths.

[Rosamunda]

The Finnish system where pedestrians and vehicles both have a green light is quite simply stupid.

When I arrived here in 2001 I very nearly drove into a man in a wheelchair who was crossing a (C) type zebra near my home - i was turning right. Since then i have been ultra careful but at the same crossing a car almost drove into the back of me when I stopped at the green light to twist my upper torso almost 180° to see what was coming (small child, cyclist, rollerblader, mopo, etc). There is a similar crossing in Olari where I get on Keha II - the cycle path slopes up towards the crossing - its impossible to see what is coming up the slope (nb I'm in a 4x4 which is considerably higher off the road than a saloon but I still can't see what's coming.)

In France a similar crossing would always have flashing amber. Never green.

[Pursuivant]

There is virtually no zebras in the UK... Or even pedestrian crossings - never seena sign... Except the one zebra on Abbey Road - hence the tourist photos. You cross the road at your peril and the drivers honk at you.

[Rosamunda]

In the UK we have lollipop men and ladies for helping schoolkids cross the road.
https://www.google.fi/search?q=lollipop ... 80&bih=658