Another speeding/ fine question/ Unmarked car

[suomynona.yllatot]

Hi all,

So, driving on the roadway from Helsinki, initial indicated speed limit of 100. Drops from 100> 80> 60 because of some ongoing work, in a distance of less than 500 meters.

I let the car coast down on its own, rather than applying the brakes. I guess I was around <70, but then there was this van parked there from which came a strong flash. I drove back and checked again, it seemed to be a hidden/ unmarked car, and every second car got flashed!

Dunno why they wouldn't keep the speed to a standard 60, rather than tricking the drivers with random speeds. But I guess this the "#€%&/( needs the money, so if you have to sell the mother, they'd do it! €%&/(. Frustrated!

Some questions:

I know that at least in the US, in some places, fines may be different if it is a work zone, and speed limits are temporary. Is that so here as well? Or it is similar to a standing camera? Or similar to the cops catching with radar?

Now, I am quite sure that the laws says that such measuring must be after 150 meters from the speed post, this was less than a 100 meters.

Anyway, I am just paranoid now! And I am sick of this country, its taxation on everything, and the fines, anything that helps them defraud the citizen! Personally, don't care about the broad! I love my kid though, but once it really gets to me, I need to dump all and move.

[Marsh04]

Fine is the same and if you were driving at 70-75 you'll get the minimum fine which is 170 euros.


Remember 3 fines in one year or 4 in two years will result in you losing your licence for 1-2 months.

[FinnGuyHelsinki]

Anyway, I am just paranoid now! And I am sick of this country, its taxation on everything, and the fines, anything that helps them defraud the citizen! Personally, don't care about the broad! I love my kid though, but once it really gets to me, I need to dump all and move.

Might want to try and follow the speed limits (and law otherwise), most likely will keep you from getting fines or any undue attention from the police.

[Upphew]

I let the car coast down on its own, rather than applying the brakes.

I do that regularly too. Effing annoying when the speed limit is posted on downhill. Doubly so when you see the camera after the new speed limit and either risk the speeding ticket or brake.

Now, I am quite sure that the laws says that such measuring must be after 150 meters from the speed post, this was less than a 100 meters.

Never heard of that law. I have read that speed limit starts at the sign post even if that sign is covered by snow.

Anyway, I am just paranoid now! And I am sick of this country, its taxation on everything, and the fines, anything that helps them defraud the citizen! Personally, don't care about the broad! I love my kid though, but once it really gets to me, I need to dump all and move.

Fines can be dodged, lawfully, by not committing crimes or infractions. Evading taxes... ugh good luck with that. At least the proceedings of both goes toward society.

[suomynona.yllatot]

I do that regularly too. Effing annoying when the speed limit is posted on downhill. Doubly so when you see the camera after the new speed limit and either risk the speeding ticket or brake.

Yes, yes, my point exactly. The distance between the *80-100-80-60 is less than a kilometer!!! And right before the *80, is a 60 zone. The normal speed at the exact location (and I have been driving for 5 years is 100Km/hr). They could've just kept it 60 till the work place is over!!!

This is 10% about traffic safety and more about money! !"#€%&/( beggars! Take a look at the news, in Finnish:

Valvonta-auto nakuttaisi tasaisella tahdilla kyseisessä risteyksessä 1 053 kuvaa vuorokaudessa.

In one day that is! "#€%&/()= honest turds!

[Upphew]

I do that regularly too. Effing annoying when the speed limit is posted on downhill. Doubly so when you see the camera after the new speed limit and either risk the speeding ticket or brake.

Yes, yes, my point exactly. The distance between the *80-100-80-60 is less than a kilometer!!! And right before the *80, is a 60 zone. The normal speed at the exact location (and I have been driving for 5 years is 100Km/hr). They could've just kept it 60 till the work place is over!!!

This is 10% about traffic safety and more about money! !"#€%&/( beggars! Take a look at the news, in Finnish:

Valvonta-auto nakuttaisi tasaisella tahdilla kyseisessä risteyksessä 1 053 kuvaa vuorokaudessa.

In one day that is! "#€%&/()= honest turds!

That Kuninkaanlähteenkatu is residential street with schools, 40km/h limit, speed bumps, zebra crossings, dedicated traffic sign warning about children and still people speed there. According to google street view. Maybe they should park that camera van there and get all those fines. Or maybe just stop giving fines and put people back to driving school from first speeding. I also suspect that the van wouldn't get that many pictures. Because people would warn each other and because I suspect that the 1-3 hours that it was taking pictures wasn't during night.

[FinnGuyHelsinki]

The distance between the *80-100-80-60 is less than a kilometer!!! And right before the *80, is a 60 zone. The normal speed at the exact location (and I have been driving for 5 years is 100Km/hr). They could've just kept it 60 till the work place is over!!!

You do know that the speed limit starts RIGHT AT the speed limit sign, right? Therefore you should slow down before a decreasing speed limit, so that you're driving at the correct speed when the limit changes. My guess is that your driving style just isn't compatible with the law, and you would be as annoyed if they would have set the 60km/h limit for the whole stretch. Or even if they would have raised it to 120km/h, you would still be speeding and getting a ticket if there was a camera you didn't notice.

[Kössi K]

Hmm, I can only imagine how many people regularly driving on that road would go totally mental if they didn't have those speed increases/speed limit returning to 80 or 100 on those stretches between the construction sites/otherwise 60 limit areas. They'd be complaining about the unnecessary speed decreases on those areas that are nowhere near the construction sites.

Check out this article from June; also those peltipoliisi cameras are very active near construction sites https://www.iltalehti.fi/autouutiset/20 ... 0_oa.shtml

This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone, though, but the slower speed limits of 60 (or less) in those areas are not for grabbing extra money, be it peltipoliisi or a van with a radar, nor for simply pissing people off for the sake of it, but rather for trying to ensure the safety of the construction site workers who will definitely notice the difference of even 10 kmph when cars are swooshing by their work place.
If you don't slow down to follow the speed limits despite plenty of warnings, and you get caught, you f@cked up, so you pay for your f@ckup.
I bet you'll be more aware of those limits next time in the same or a similar spot.

I've once actually sped up after turning onto a street to get more distance between myself and another car that was suddenly appearing around the bend behind. Sped up straight into seeing a flash from a parked, black police van. Had that van been visibly marked as a police one, I might have been more cautious.
Wasn't many km/h above 40, but just enough to get the small fine for it. So, I f@cked up, and I duly paid for my f@ckup.
It is that simple.

[Upphew]

The distance between the *80-100-80-60 is less than a kilometer!!! And right before the *80, is a 60 zone. The normal speed at the exact location (and I have been driving for 5 years is 100Km/hr). They could've just kept it 60 till the work place is over!!!

You do know that the speed limit starts RIGHT AT the speed limit sign, right? Therefore you should slow down before a decreasing speed limit, so that you're driving at the correct speed when the limit changes.

Many, I'd hazard a guess that most, won't be doing the posted speed at the sign. I at least try to do so... when the speed goes up

[suomynona.yllatot]

That Kuninkaanlähteenkatu is residential street with schools, 40km/h limit, speed bumps, zebra crossings, dedicated traffic sign warning about children and still people speed there. According to google street view. Maybe they should park that camera van there and get all those fines. Or maybe just stop giving fines and put people back to driving school from first speeding. I also suspect that the van wouldn't get that many pictures. Because people would warn each other and because I suspect that the 1-3 hours that it was taking pictures wasn't during night.

Thanks Upphew, that I did not know. In that case, I agree with the vans. I quote and then state more below.

go totally mental if they didn't have those speed increases/speed limit returning to 80 or 100 on those stretches between the construction sites/otherwise 60 limit areas.

...
slower speed limits of 60 (or less) in those areas are not for grabbing extra money, be it peltipoliisi or a van with a radar, nor for simply pissing people off for the sake of it, but rather for trying to ensure the safety of the construction site workers who will definitely notice the difference of even 10 kmph when cars are swooshing by their work place.
If you don't slow down to follow the speed limits despite plenty of warnings, and you get caught, you f@cked up, so you pay for your f@ckup.
I bet you'll be more aware of those limits next time in the same or a similar spot.

...
It is that simple.

Look, I get it. Safety is the core fact.

There is the spirit of the law (also known as the objective of the law), and then the absoluteness of the law. Makes a stark distinction between "the law is blind vs. justice being blind".

What I am pissed off is the way the Finns apply the absoluteness of the law. Most Finns jokingly refer to this as "säänto Suomi", i.e. over-run by laws and rules without common sense. A few days ago, a friend got into an argument with a neighbour on his street, a jerk of a driver, who drove his car at ~70 in a 30 zone. I witnessed it. This violates the spirit of the law, the rule of order and safety.

When the cops, and this is well-known, today, the cameras are less about safety, and the expectation has been that it would *net* a certain income. Finnish drivers are generally disciplined, and thus when the income expectation does not match the investment, then, well, they need to up-their-game, play the 60-80-100-70-60-80 in short spans. A drive on the Hanko motorway, or from Nummela to Helsinki would easily satisfy any unbeliever.

Oh well!

[Upphew]

Sääntösuomi indeed. The rules just spill over and aren't necessarily compatible with other rules and it makes nice jungle for normal people to navigate. There are probably rules how you are supposed to change the speed limit and probably another how you need certain limit to do roadworks. And then the workers are doing work for 8 hours and the rest of the day no-one is there and the speed limit stays the same. And then the drivers start to ignore the limit that is to protect the workers.

I'm not giving excuses for dumb regulations, just trying to point out logic behind them. Those empty roadworks with unneeded lower speed limits have been on papers more and more. Dunno if they are doing better job changing them back up when not needed.

[riku2]

the slower speed limits of 60 (or less) in those areas are not for grabbing extra money, be it peltipoliisi or a van with a radar, nor for simply pissing people off for the sake of it, but rather for trying to ensure the safety of the construction site workers

I'm glad to hear of some cameras and fines in construction areas. Most of the time finnish drivers totally ignore the speed limit in construction zones unless there are really narrow lanes or chicanes or construction workers actually digging. Otherwise the speed limit is ignored until the last minute with some heavy braking.

This is how people drove in the UK about 40 years ago and as a result there were large traffic jams approaching motorway roadworks. Now they have average speed cameras and everyone sticks to the limit for the WHOLE stretch. No speeding up and then braking for chicanes.
The result of the average speed cameras - no more 5 km queues when going into roadworks and they have been considering raising the limit on motorway roadworks from the normal 80km/h to 95km/h. Meanwhile in Finland they must put the limit at 50km'h on the assumption that drivers will still do 70. So drivers are their own worst enemy in Finland (something they can think of when stuck in traffic jams that would not exist in the UK even though the traffic levels there are much higher than Finland).

[undertakerfreak]

"Waaaah, I can't check my speed properly, so I hate this country"

[wolf80]

I am also happy that they are checking the speed limit in construction zones, so people know the signs are not just up for fun.

Just today driving from Tampere to Kangasala. Speed limit goes down 100-80-60-50 within a short stretch. I was definitely driving at least 5 km/h over that for each zone, but people in front of me were at least 20 km/h over the limit, and the car behind me tried to kiss my shiny metal ass.

Rules are there for a reason. If you break the rules, you deserve a fine. I sometimes drive over the limit, too. If they catch me, I deserve the fine. I promise I will not post this anywhere on the internet. I will be angry at MYSELF and pay the fine. Maybe I will learn from it and drive slower next time. Or maybe not.

When the law is actually applied, people will always complain about the "absoluteness of law". But when the law is not applied, people will go wild and disregard the rules completely. If people were fined for breaking the rules every single time, nobody would complain. As this is not the case, people think that there is a choice - if nothing bad happened when they broke the rules, why should they be fined for it next time? But the rules are there for a reason. It does not matter if you can understand these reasons, you actually do not have to understand them. You only have to follow the rules.

[suomynona.yllatot]

When the law is actually applied, people will always complain about the "absoluteness of law". ... It does not matter if you can understand these reasons, you actually do not have to understand them. You only have to follow the rules.

And this is what leads to anarchy, if you ever read the likes of Dostoevsky, Plato, etc. What happens when the rules are rules and people obey them without questioning or expressing their views? What do you think? Should the "mere" guards during the WWII be punished? After all, they were just following the "rules". As I said, I agree, safety is mandatory! I am not downplaying that at all.

BTW, even the police understand that. They usually subtract a certain number from the indicated speed, to ensure that the law is not in absolute stupidity and a mockery! E.g. absolute would be a fine at 61, when the speed is 60.

"Waaaah, I can't check my speed properly, so I hate this country"

Wow! What an cretin! I responded quite accurately to your "other" post. And learn to read! Learn to read! L-e-a-r-n t-o r-e-a-d.