Plumbing renovation... fuming!

[suomynona.yllatot]

Just read this piece of news on the costs of plumbing renovations (news in Finnish here).

Fuming! And I had been saying this *all along*.

And I was scorned those days, i.e. "oh well, this is normal". There was another piece of news some time ago, about plumbing done in Germany, the prices were about 7k Eur for an apartment and in shorter times. Some links here

My suggestion:
- Look for an intra-company expat move for that period if that is possible.

- The other option is to enroll for studies and see if you can get a HOAS apartment for that period (you get another degree and cheaper housing).

- Most people buy an apartment, then a row-house, then a independent house. I advise most comers now: Don't buy an apartment, get a house straight away, You also save on taxes (i.e. only the first purchase of residence is "tax free" until the age of 39.

The sad part is that this information is very much now known, yet no changes.

[FinnGuyHelsinki]

That's not actually news, has been known for quite some time. Generally the housing co-operatives have little choice, though, risk starting to get leaks in the building structure or pay up for renovation. It would take a couple of larger contractors to start competing on price to start make a difference, which may not be in their best interest.

As for buying a house instead of an apartment, obviously it's not a simple matter of choice; price and location matter a lot.

[network_engineer]

Interesting news. Like FinnGuyHelsinki said, it is quite known, and unless there is some real competition, it looks hard. On the other hand, I remember a similar issue with the road companies, that got a huge fine for operating as a cartel. So there is hope!

A friend of mine lives in Kilo, Espoo, and had their plumbing renovated recently. While he did move out to a rental for about three months or so, I remember him telling that the work is now completed, i.e. about 2½ weeks ahead of schedule. So, on that front at least, he had no complaints, they'll start to move back soon.

However, for his apartment, the bill is 70 000 Eur. Which goes along with the house (the rahoitusvastike). That got me thinking. He bought the house for 230 000 Eur. And with the 70 000 Eur in loan, the expected value of the house should be 300 000 at least, or maybe even more IF considering that there won't be another renovation for another 40 odd years.

I checked the apartment costs there, it is still hovering around the 235 000 to 240 000 Eur mark. Personally, I am not sure if the value of the house will increase to that degree. Or that roughly 1/3rd the cost of a apartment is just the pipes!!!

Regarding the apartment/ house, I tend to agree with the first post, at least that is my experience as well. We bought a detached house (in 2008), paid about 312000 Eur. Pay roughly 700-800 EUR in mortgage, and the rest of the maintenance is on us, e.g. we have a bio garbage, we take our rubbish to the recycle, use the garbage collection only once every two weeks, mow and clean, and do all other maintenance work on our own. And we are careful with the water consumption since the cost is per m3.

I would say that my friend living in Kilo pays more on an average, he has to pay about 600 eur for the mortgage, and another was it 420 eur or so for the yhtiövastike, and now another 400 eur for the plumbing renovation, and still complains of poor service from the housing company, e.g. that often the snow is not removed etc.

Generally speaking, the price difference between apartments and houses are comparable these days, especially if you do a lot on your own.

[Upphew]

However, for his apartment, the bill is 70 000 Eur. Which goes along with the house (the rahoitusvastike). That got me thinking. He bought the house for 230 000 Eur. And with the 70 000 Eur in loan, the expected value of the house should be 300 000 at least, or maybe even more IF considering that there won't be another renovation for another 40 odd years.

Plumbing renovations, or lack of one, are not valued nearly enough. But same can be said about anything. New wheels for car won't increase the price by grand compared to one with couple of years old rubber. Rebuild the engine in your boat or get new sails and you won't increase the price by the amount you used.

[network_engineer]

But same can be said about anything. New wheels for car won't increase..

While I "technically" agree and see what you are saying, IMVHO, they are not the same. Housing has always / and is continually considered an asset, with appreciating value. Cars are not considered an asset, but a liability, with depreciating asset value.

[Upphew]

But same can be said about anything. New wheels for car won't increase..

While I "technically" agree and see what you are saying, IMVHO, they are not the same. Housing has always / and is continually considered an asset, with appreciating value. Cars are not considered an asset, but a liability, with depreciating asset value.

True. Although that is changing. Try to get 200-300k loan to build your dream house in boonies, banks will tell that your asset is worth 150k when it is ready.

[network_engineer]

True. Although that is changing. Try to get 200-300k loan to build your dream house in boonies, banks will tell that your asset is worth 150k when it is ready.

True! And it is irritating the way the economies are structured today! No wonder the world is plagued with issues.

We had a similar situation when we lived in Nurmijärvi (long time ago). When we planned to sell our detached house (own land as well), about 2000m2, this estate agent showed up, told us she could get a very quick offer, and showed us some odd stats that pegged out house at ~ 212K Eur. She lived close enough, we knew where she lived, and her house was similar as ours, except the land area and the built up area was smaller. I eagerly told her I'd take out second loan and offered to buy her house at that price.

Didn't hear from her after that... wondered what happened!

[Upphew]

True. Although that is changing. Try to get 200-300k loan to build your dream house in boonies, banks will tell that your asset is worth 150k when it is ready.

True! And it is irritating the way the economies are structured today! No wonder the world is plagued with issues.

We had a similar situation when we lived in Nurmijärvi (long time ago). When we planned to sell our detached house (own land as well), about 2000m2, this estate agent showed up, told us she could get a very quick offer, and showed us some odd stats that pegged out house at ~ 212K Eur. She lived close enough, we knew where she lived, and her house was similar as ours, except the land area and the built up area was smaller. I eagerly told her I'd take out second loan and offered to buy her house at that price.

Didn't hear from her after that... wondered what happened!

Haha, nice one!