World Cup Final

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:52 pm

It seems unreasonable that physical aggression gets the red card but verbal abuse is condoned. I thought Fifa had some kind of campaign going AGAINST racism in football. This incident just highlights how totally ineffective Fifa is at doing that.

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antarctica_moon · Post by **antarctica_moon** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:54 pm

from "famous meltdowns"
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multim ... ent.1.html

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:03 pm

So who was calling who a what?

antarctica_moon · Post by **antarctica_moon** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:03 pm

ajdias · Post by **ajdias** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:20 pm

Hank W. wrote:So who was calling who a what?

According to the deaf experts at Globo that know how to read lips ( http://gmc.globo.com/GMC/0,,2465-p-M491158,00.html -Brazil based viewers only) Materazzi called Zidane's sister a prostitute besides a third, heavier, insult address to Zidane. The caption does not say what and I could not find the video on youtube

pierrot · Post by **pierrot** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:53 pm

The italian (and spanish) league is renowned for their very racist public (Messina-Inter last season) and some of their players are also rather embarassing (Di Canio). So it wouldnt really surprise me to get such remarks from an italian national team member.
Its kind of strange that this behavior is accepted in/from certain countries while it would never happen in others. Makes you wonder if all these official fifa racism campaigns are not more than a joke...

The only thing positive to that is that the "world champions" will play in the second italian league next season if the italian legal system is more than a mere joke.

antarctica_moon · Post by **antarctica_moon** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:18 am

Here in the US we have an interesting tolerance for violence and an intolerence for overt racist behavior in sports. Any racist comment would have immediately drawn a violent response, so there's considerable sympathy for Zidane.

More speculation from message boards on what was exchanged. No idea if this is true:

Zidane : Ordinanza di tirare il costume!! / Stop pulling my shirt!

Materazzi : Taciti, enculo, hai solamente cio che merite... / Shut up butt ficked one, you are only getting what you deserve...

Zidane : Si e cio... / Yeah, that's it....

Zidane walks away but the italian player continues

Materazzi : Meritate tutti ciò, voi gli enculato di musulmani, sporchi
terroristici / You all desrve it, you butt @#$% Muslims are all dirty terrorists

This was also speculated:

"I Hope Jean suffered"

To put it in context. Jean Varraud is Zidane's first trainer and Zidane considers him as his second father. He died just before World Cup started from a long cancer battle. That is when Zidane returns and head butts him.

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:56 am

On French TV this morning they said that Zidane will give a press conference next week.

Vallu · Post by **Vallu** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:18 am

donald wrote:
Vallu wrote: In any case, winning at PKs isn't exactly the best way to win a World Championship.
Indeed. But this victory makes it up for the defeat in the final in 1994 and the defeat in the semifinal in 1990. Both lost with PK.

Italiano anch'io.

Yeah, that's right, compatriota

Vallu · Post by **Vallu** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:24 am

pierrot wrote:The italian (and spanish) league is renowned for their very racist public (Messina-Inter last season) and some of their players are also rather embarassing (Di Canio). So it wouldnt really surprise me to get such remarks from an italian national team member.
Its kind of strange that this behavior is accepted in/from certain countries while it would never happen in others. Makes you wonder if all these official fifa racism campaigns are not more than a joke...

The only thing positive to that is that the "world champions" will play in the second italian league next season if the italian legal system is more than a mere joke.

I really can't justify both Zidane's and Materazzi's behaviour, but sorry, racism exists wherever, not only in Italian and Spanish league. I know that in Finland, there's racism against Russians, Eastern Europeans and "Romas". Maybe in Finland there aren't yet enough foreign people to push locals to be THAT racists. For sure, it's also Italians and Spanish well-known hot temperament to make them react and insult the others that way, but I guess racism is everywhere. Let's see how many others would have just been calm during the World Championship final match.
I repeat, they were both very bad.....but still, don't keep saying that Italians and Spanish are the only very racist nationalities or football leagues, although I agree about Messina, Inter and Di Canio.
We all Italians are hoping that our legal system will do what it is supposed to be, by punishing all the teams that were involved in that bad thing...we are all hoping our legal system won't be a mere joke.......

sinikettu · Post by **sinikettu** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:45 am

There are several attempts by expert lips readers posted on the web where they have tried to read the lips of both players.
But..Their mouths are not always in shot.
Only thing they all seem to agree on is that it is not possible to see the total conversation on the TV footage.
ZZ says very little and appears to be calm until the last moment when he blew a fuse.
Only a few snatches/words are clear and agreed by most experts.
They are::
...Terrorist...
...Muslims, and.. Jean...

The post by..antarctica_moon..is a best guess to add the words into a guessed context.
By the word "Jean" seemed to be the trigger word for the loss of temper and attack.

antarctica_moon · Post by **antarctica_moon** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:01 am

sinikettu wrote:There are several attempts by expert lips readers posted on the web where they have tried to read the lips of both players.
But..Their mouths are not always in shot.
Only thing they all seem to agree on is that it is not possible to see the total conversation on the TV footage.
ZZ says very little and appears to be calm until the last moment when he blew a fuse.
Only a few snatches/words are clear and agreed by most experts.
They are::
...Terrorist...
...Muslims, and.. Jean...

The post by..antarctica_moon..is a best guess to add the words into a guessed context.
By the word "Jean" seemed to be the trigger word for the loss of temper and attack.

If it was "Jean", I'd understand... He saved him from a life of poverty in Marseille. Don't get me wrong - he should have been red-carded, and I don't want to take anything away from the Italians - they played very well and deserve the Cup, but I'm such a fan of Zidane that I find it hard to believe he'd just snap at the typical baiting.

From his recently updated entry on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zin%C3%A9dine_Zidane

Both Zidane and Materazzi refused to comment on the incident. Zidane's agent Alain Migliaccio said, "[Zidane] told me Materazzi said something very serious to him but he wouldn't tell me what." Reportedly, the deaf forensic lip-reader Jessica Rees was employed to analyze the video sequences with the help of an Italian translator. According to these reports, Materazzi spoke in Italian - a language understood by Zidane due to his time spent with Juventus F.C. - and first told him: "Hold on, wait, that one's not for a n***** like you." As the players walked forward, Materazzi allegedly said: "We all know you are the son of a terrorist whore." Then, just before the headbutt, he was seen saying: "So just f*ck off." According to Brazilian TV Rede Globo, a lip-reader claimed that Materazzi twice called Zidane's sister a prostitute. Earlier claims about Materazzi having called his opponent a "dirty terrorist" have been denied by Materazzi, who reportedly said: "It is absolutely not true, I did not call him a terrorist. I'm ignorant. I don't even know what the word means."

pierrot · Post by **pierrot** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:11 am

Vallu wrote:I really can't justify both Zidane's and Materazzi's behaviour, but sorry, racism exists wherever, not only in Italian and Spanish league. I know that in Finland, there's racism against Russians, Eastern Europeans and "Romas". Maybe in Finland there aren't yet enough foreign people to push locals to be THAT racists. For sure, it's also Italians and Spanish well-known hot temperament to make them react and insult the others that way, but I guess racism is everywhere. Let's see how many others would have just been calm during the World Championship final match. I repeat, they were both very bad.....but still, don't keep saying that Italians and Spanish are the only very racist nationalities or football leagues, although I agree about Messina, Inter and Di Canio."

Then please tell me what other countries have african players leaving the field because they get taunted so much? Why does it not happen in the premier league?

Why does noone in the Bundesliga make a fascists salute?

Why can a certain italian teams public wave nazi-flags without any problem?
http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/topstory/sports/l ... 050410.jpg
Why does the swedish trainer not use the N-word to describe players of other teams?

Why does the german league not get fined for racist public chants in national team games vs. France or England like it happened with the spanish league?

I dont remember such bad incidents in other european leagues, so it must somehow be ok with some countries and not with others.

And its not just a phenomenon fo this year, this is know for years.

Why is there not such behavior in other countries with as high or higher numbers of immigrants than in Italy?

"Hot temperament" might excuse for a quick insult, but when I have constant racist remarks from public AND players, thats not "hot temperament" but simply widespread racism. period.

Vallu wrote: We all Italians are hoping that our legal system will do what it is supposed to be, by punishing all the teams that were involved in that bad thing...we are all hoping our legal system won't be a mere joke.......

I wouldnt take a bet on that.
The decision has already been postponed for a day.

antarctica_moon · Post by **antarctica_moon** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:12 am

nice background piece in the Independent:

http://sport.independent.co.uk/football ... 171423.ece

...
Only Cohn-Bendit tried to understand Zidane the man. "Those who say you have to control your temper at that level are right," he said. "But you have to remember that this is someone who has struggled to succeed all his life. He remains a child of the [poor] suburbs, which is why the suburbs identify with him... Life is a fight for him and, yes, there are moments when you blow a fuse."

antarctica_moon · Post by **antarctica_moon** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:54 am

From http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?set_ ... 181855S163

Rome - Italy defender Marco Materazzi acknowledged that he "insulted" France playermaker Zinedine Zidane because he was "super arrogant", according to La Gazzetta dello Sport.

Zidane, 34, floored Materazzi with a headbutt to the chest in the second half of extra time during the World Cup final in Germany, missing a penalty shoot-out in which he would have expected to take one of France's spotkicks.

"I held his shirt... only for a few seconds, he turned toward me and scoffed at me, looking at me with super arrogance, up and down: 'if you really want my shirt you can have it later.' (Zidane said) it's true, I shot back with an insult," the paper quoted Materazzi as saying.

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World Cup Final