advise needed for buying a piano

Ema · Post by **Ema** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:39 am

Ok, I think the thing is that we are foreigners. Before we put our money to any sort of solid investment like even buying a coffee maker or bookshelf, we think first how do we sell it when we leave the country, how much money would we get back(at least in my case). For a piano, it is always always easy to buy, hard to sell. And it is so hard to move around. So the starting point is very different. I would say, if I am a finn, I wouldn't be thinking too much about it, let's face it, 3000e is not a big number with standard finn salary, for taking care of it, finns are so used to be charged on everything they get, so couple of hundreds once for a while is not that big deal either.

Ok, after all the information, my deep deep down feeling is shaking (thanks for raamv ) I start to think that electric piano is better idea. Definately gonna go to the shops to check out for the prices. Still hope if someone can give some experiences on this topic before I rush into it.

**Sponsor:**

Jukka Aho · Post by **Jukka Aho** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:37 pm

Ema wrote:For a piano, it is always always easy to buy, hard to sell. And it is so hard to move around.

We used a tractor and a rear scoop:

(Okay, okay, it was only 1.5 km and the weather was nice. There was a plank platform for it, lots of padding and stuff, and tightly knotted ropes holding the thing in place. :)

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:45 pm

Heck, even I got a piano. Its totally an accident, its my sisters piano that was in my parents home, she couldn't take it with her moving so I had to "take it". So its there sitting as a piece of useless furniture. She had two other pianos, and when moving was trying to get rid of them. the piano stores wouldn't want anything to do with them. So you can buy used ones for peanuts. Like if the piano was mine I'd give it to you just to get rid of it

Ema · Post by **Ema** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:36 pm

Jukka,

I might do that someday if I ever will get a real piano.

Hank,

I was wondering where is hank. He must knows

Ok, that's why life is not fair. I am here burning my head try to get one,
you have one right there as a piece of 'useless furniture'...

Or should I say 'elämä on'

raamv · Post by **raamv** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:59 pm

remember in Finland, even useless furniture is not cheap

so Pianos start from 500 Euros..But then when you want to "Play" it ti doesnt become useless anymore..and so you have to pay through the orifices to keep it "playable" and serviced..just like a used car..
and when you want to get rid of it ...Better pay someone to take it ( as its free to dump furniture here either)

Jukka Aho · Post by **Jukka Aho** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 5:19 pm

raamv wrote:remember in Finland, even useless furniture is not cheap :wink: :twisted:
so Pianos start from 500 Euros..But then when you want to "Play" it ti doesnt become useless anymore..and so you have to pay through the orifices to keep it "playable" and serviced..just like a used car..

I think the going rate for tuning a piano (including the little repairs a piano tuner might want to make if some parts have worn out in the hammer mechanism) is €80...€100. It is usually recommended that this be done once a year but I think many families are cheapskates and will call a piano tuner only when the thing clearly starts to sound detuned, or when there is a problem with one of the keys, so perhaps once in a few years would be more realistic. Depends on how much you play on it, really: more playing means more need for tuning. (And brand new pianos may need to be tuned a couple of times before the strings really “set in”.)

That said, I know at least one individual who decided to learn how to tune his piano himself... and succeeded at it. A short quote:

“Pianon viritys on ollut ennakoitua helpompaa. Tälläkin keskustelufoorumilla sai kuulla aivan yltä-kyllin kommentteja siitä, miten piano ei voi virittää kukaan muu kuin pianon virittäjä. Bull-!"#¤%. Jos on munaa, sen pystyy virittämään kuka hyvänsä.”

or translated:

“Tuning the piano has been easier than anticipated. On this discussion forum (like many others) I received my fair share of comments from nay-sayers about how no-one else but a professional piano tuner can tune a piano. Bullsh*t. Anyone can do that, if they’ve got the balls.”

:)

raamv · Post by **raamv** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 5:46 pm

Jukka Aho wrote: “Tuning the piano has been easier than anticipated. On this discussion forum (like many others) I received my fair share of comments from nay-sayers about how no-one else but a professional piano tuner can tune a piano. Bullsh*t. Anyone can do that, if they’ve got the balls.”

Agreed, provided you have plenty of time in your hands, a lot of muscle power ( to move the piano, and to park the board properly..either upright or on some rest)..

Jukka Aho · Post by **Jukka Aho** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 6:09 pm

raamv wrote:
Jukka Aho wrote: “Tuning the piano has been easier than anticipated. On this discussion forum (like many others) I received my fair share of comments from nay-sayers about how no-one else but a professional piano tuner can tune a piano. Bullsh*t. Anyone can do that, if they’ve got the balls.”

:)
Agreed, provided you have plenty of time in your hands, a lot of muscle power ( to move the piano, and to park the board properly..either upright or on some rest)..

Hmm, I’m not sure what you mean. None of the piano tuners that have visited my parents’ house have ever moved the piano. The front panels and the hinged cover for the keys (is there a special name for it in English?) can be detached quite easily, which allows you access to the strings and the mechanism. Like on this video.

raamv · Post by **raamv** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:53 am

Jukka Aho wrote:

Hmm, I’m not sure what you mean. None of the piano tuners that have visited my parents’ house have ever moved the piano. The front panels and the hinged cover for the keys (is there a special name for it in English?) can be detached quite easily, which allows you access to the strings and the mechanism. Like on this video.[/quote]
U know its mighty expensive for a Piano artisit who is a celebrity to come to Finland and tune your piano..

Ema · Post by **Ema** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:59 pm

ok, here is one that I have my eye on.

piano was bought -86, has been played after -96. Last tuned before year 96. Kept good condition at least from outside, The model is Fazer Forte. The height is 109 cm; the width is 145 cm and the depth is 53,5 cm. For over ten year it has been more or less unused.

So, doesn anyone have some ideas about this.

I don't know how to paste pic here. So PM me if you need to see the pics.

Thanks.
[/img]

Ema · Post by **Ema** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:12 pm

ok, got the pics work(hopefully)

http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/vie ... id=9307527

inkku · Post by **inkku** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:51 pm

Ema,

if you want a piano, just go for it. It is nothing so special or expensive. A piano retains its value, if you keep it well. What is most important is to play it regularly, thus you need to tune it less. And don’t buy a piano which hasn’t been played actively. In principle a piano should be tuned annually, so if it hasn’t been tuned during the last ten years I would leave it.

Hellas and Fazer are brands which are widely available in Finland, but nothing to write home about. But if you are beginners, they are a sure bet, as they are easy to sell. I had a Hellas piano, and selling it (though it was old) was really straightforward business as people recognize (and value) the name.

I googled a bit and found the following very, very general opinions and advice (original ones in Finnish, so I don’t put the links here):
Fazer good value, better than Hellas
Yamaha very good value, but heavier to play, for less money small Yamahas a good choice
Avoid Etude

If I were you, I would first go to a music shop, just to try several pianos and compare how they feel and sound. Ask the shop assistants why a certain piano is more expensive than the other.

When you buy a second-hand piano, take a professional with you: a piano teacher, or piano tuner. Here are some instructions.
http://www.pianoworld.com/buypiano.htm

Good luck !

Jukka Aho · Post by **Jukka Aho** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:58 pm

inkku wrote:if you want a piano, just go for it. It is nothing so special or expensive. A piano retains its value, if you keep it well. What is most important is to play it regularly, thus you need to tune it less.

Strange. What I’ve heard is that institutions giving music instruction need to tune their pianos far more frequently than ordinary people – precisely because they get played a lot more.

raamv · Post by **raamv** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:06 pm

Jukka Aho wrote:
inkku wrote:if you want a piano, just go for it. It is nothing so special or expensive. A piano retains its value, if you keep it well. What is most important is to play it regularly, thus you need to tune it less.
Strange. What I’ve heard is that institutions giving music instruction need to tune their pianos far more frequently than ordinary people – precisely because they get played a lot more.

Jukka is right in this...
The more you play, the more the springs and the wires need to be tensioned..

inkku · Post by **inkku** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 6:31 pm

Apologies for my hastily/sloppily written post, should have known it wouldn’t pass the ff scrutiny….

What I meant is that allegedly some (good?) pianos actually get better when they are played regularly. Similarly, if a piano is not played for a while, it starts losing the tune. Thus, a piano kept one year and played regularly is 'better' than a piano which hasn’t been touched during that time. Naturally, we are talking about moderate private playing, not hordes of beginners banging pianos from morning to night ….

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advise needed for buying a piano