Negative and more NEGATIVE ...

[Tiwaz]

If you dont have the right "connections" to get a job..you are not going to get it by just simply applying for an open advertisement...

I think it is very loose position. Simply trying to explain self weakness in specialty.

PS: Your explanations or rude words won't convince and have no impact on me.

No it is not.

You are correct that finnish is only spoken by few million silly people of funny northern country.

However, now we speak of getting employment IN this funny northern country where few million silly people prefer to speak their mostly unknown language.

Most finns can speak english, but most prefer to handle their daily matters in finnish. You see, many daily matters which you have to deal with may have area specific words which are not familiar to most finns.

To save my life I could not have fluent discussion in english regarding my taxes, savings or investments in bank or tax office. Neither could I describe my current illness to doctor anywhere near same level of accuracy.

This is because I am not bilingual. English is language I learned later in life.

If you were guy sitting next to me when I go to bank to discuss how I would like to invest whatever few coins I have extra in my pocket I would say "Thank you." and go find place where I receive service in finnish.

This is not that rare occurrance either. Thus, most employers do not want to commit atrocious misjudgement and put someone who cannot communicate into service duties.

By the way, Neste is huge corporation in finnish scale. Those big ones may have english as official office language, but you can bet your pants that finnish workers will fluently discuss in finnish whenever they can.

Furthermore, most of job markets are dominated by smaller companies which do not have english as official language and would never want to switch to accommodate their single odd one who does not speak finnish.



In every country, inability to speak local language will make everything at least ten times more difficult. You trying to convinve people opposite is huge disfavour for them.

[raamv]

...

sorry, I was mistaken, I meant exclamations.

Your exclamations or rude words won't convince and have no impact on me.

I am not trying to be rude but state how I see this..your inability to understand this culture and environment despite the fact that many "natives" and experienced foreign residents are trying to convince you, really makes you a Stupid!
Ignorance can be overcome by effort, but resistance to that effort is being idiotic!!

[Hank W.]

If for example, a person has Harvard education, recommendation from KPMG, where she/he worked for NN years. Would this person be hired at Sampo?

Now you are again talking about a niche job. If Sampo was looking for someone they'd headhunt a Harvard graduate. How many Harvard graduates you are seeing queueing up behind the door of Sampo? How about something realistic; some Jürgen Heissblond graduated from Nirgendwoberg Uni and worked for Sparkasse Überoberzwischenammergau. Thats who you have queuing up.

Bus driver, lähohoitoja no language requirement.

Except when Superiorinferior comes by and demands service in Swedish

[debonaire]

...

sorry, I was mistaken, I meant exclamations.

Your exclamations or rude words won't convince and have no impact on me.

I am not trying to be rude but state how I see this..your inability to understand this culture and environment despite the fact that many "natives" and experienced foreign residents are trying to convince you, really makes you a Stupid!
Ignorance can be overcome by effort, but resistance to that effort is being idiotic!!

shrecher I agree with you to a large extent...education,qualification and work experience matters the most to employers when they are looking to hire people...finnish language is not a prerequisite,as in my case,but its definitely an added asset even for niche jobs...
There is no denying the fact that a Harvard or Stanford graduate would need to learn finnish to get a job in finland...Finnish requirement for such highly qualified candidates would be utterly ridiculous...
But again we should not overlook the fact that getting a job in any country becomes much easier if one knows the local language...Having said that,finnish is a tough language and it may take years to be able to communicate in finnish and one need not be unemployed during that time...Opportunities are always there and if one has a good network and the right set of skills,one can get the job despite the language barrier...
I,for one,started my career here...I didn't have any finnish skills or any work experience but i managed to get a job on my first interview since i possessed the skills what the employers were looking for...I have come across many foreigners who have joined our company without any finnish skills...To fill up the deficiency in finnish language, our company has introduced weekly finnish classes for foreigners which is held every monday in company premises...
The language barrier comes to play its part depending on the type of job and the skills required for it...

[shrecher]

How about something realistic; some Jürgen Heissblond graduated from Nirgendwoberg Uni and worked for Sparkasse Überoberzwischenammergau. Thats who you have queuing up.

It depends how experienced the guy is and what is his role was there. If he has more then 10 years of serving at Sparkasse, he made impressing carrier there (e.g. became branch lead), continuously increased his skills by attending professional trainings, I believe it is no problems to get a job in Sampo. Of course, English is a must too.

[shrecher]

But again we should not overlook the fact that getting a job in any country becomes much easier if one knows the local language...

I agree.

[sammy]

The language barrier comes to play its part depending on the type of job and the skills required for it...

That's what everyone has been trying to say all along

[Tiwaz]

How about something realistic; some Jürgen Heissblond graduated from Nirgendwoberg Uni and worked for Sparkasse Überoberzwischenammergau. Thats who you have queuing up.

It depends how experienced the guy is and what is his role was there. If he has more then 10 years of serving at Sparkasse, he made impressing carrier there (e.g. became branch lead), continuously increased his skills by attending professional trainings, I believe it is no problems to get a job in Sampo. Of course, English is a must too.

"I believe"....

Well, I believe that Moon is made of cheese!

Unless there is really, really niche position where this sparkasse superman has no need to interact with finnish speakers or if there are absolutely nobody else applying and it is imperative for Sampo to fulfill that position then this german guy is out of luck.

English just is not substitute for finnish. Never...

Debonaire, and what kind of company you work for? Do you totally english speakers act as customer contact? Might this business be some kind of niche area?



You guys assume english is as good as finnish. It is not. Not every finn is fluent in english.

[debonaire]

...

sorry, I was mistaken, I meant exclamations.

Your exclamations or rude words won't convince and have no impact on me.

I am not trying to be rude but state how I see this..your inability to understand this culture and environment despite the fact that many "natives" and experienced foreign residents are trying to convince you, really makes you a Stupid!
Ignorance can be overcome by effort, but resistance to that effort is being idiotic!!

pretty strange raamv....everytime when someone on this forum has a different opinion than yours,you tend to get hyperbolic...when was the last time you were unemployed...maybe decades ago,so that classifies your experiences of finding a job as antique and outdated....You need to realise that the situation has changed significantly since the last time you went looking for job here...wake up and take notice of the world around you...Finland has become more globalised and has done away with its inhibitions of hiring foreigners...
And for your statement that for every one successful person,there are 10 others suffering is a baseless analogy...A foreigner who is highly skilled will easily get a job as compared to a foreigner with virtually no skills...This is how it is all across the globe...Immigrants who aren't highly skilled with virtually no finnish constitute the bulk of unemployed foreigners and we just cannot put forward their disappointing plight as reality for all immigrants..

[shrecher]

The language barrier comes to play its part depending on the type of job and the skills required for it...

That's what everyone has been trying to say all along

I agree.

Then, what is point to have a specialty, which strongly requires fluent native language (e.g HR assistant) to come here and be negative about finding work here? If person knew about such requirement, why be upset? (recall the topic subj?)

[shrecher]

You guys assume english is as good as finnish.

Nokia (btw, this company 3% of GDP)
Flander.com
Neste Oil
...

I guess that list is long enough and there English is official language. Every time when I come to Helsinki I hear non-Finns speech, similar to Singapore.

[Tiwaz]

The language barrier comes to play its part depending on the type of job and the skills required for it...

That's what everyone has been trying to say all along

I agree.

Then, what is point to have a specialty, which strongly requires fluent native language (e.g HR assistant) to come here and be negative about finding work here? If person knew about such requirement, why be upset? (recall the topic subj?)

Name jobs which are not niche jobs of highly specialized nature and do not require finnish.

Name jobs where you can regularily expect to be forgiven inability to communicate with finns.

They are few and limited to few fields as most jobs require being in contact with people who, as a rule here, prefer finnish.

[shrecher]

Name jobs which are not niche jobs of highly specialized nature and do not require finnish.

Software Development. Engineering, builder, doctor, surgeon. Even dentist could work without finnish or with very basic.

Name jobs where you can regularily expect to be forgiven inability to communicate with finns.

Finns very ease to communicate in English. You should not feel guilty.
They English could be limited, but still OK for communication.

[Faithful]

If you dont have the right "connections" to get a job..you are not going to get it by just simply applying for an open advertisement...

I think it is very loose position. Simply trying to explain self weakness in specialty.

PS: Your explanations or rude words won't convince and have no impact on me.

No it is not.

You are correct that finnish is only spoken by few million silly people of funny northern country.

However, now we speak of getting employment IN this funny northern country where few million silly people prefer to speak their mostly unknown language.

Most finns can speak english, but most prefer to handle their daily matters in finnish. You see, many daily matters which you have to deal with may have area specific words which are not familiar to most finns.

To save my life I could not have fluent discussion in english regarding my taxes, savings or investments in bank or tax office. Neither could I describe my current illness to doctor anywhere near same level of accuracy.

This is because I am not bilingual. English is language I learned later in life.

If you were guy sitting next to me when I go to bank to discuss how I would like to invest whatever few coins I have extra in my pocket I would say "Thank you." and go find place where I receive service in finnish.

This is not that rare occurrance either. Thus, most employers do not want to commit atrocious misjudgement and put someone who cannot communicate into service duties.

By the way, Neste is huge corporation in finnish scale. Those big ones may have english as official office language, but you can bet your pants that finnish workers will fluently discuss in finnish whenever they can.

Furthermore, most of job markets are dominated by smaller companies which do not have english as official language and would never want to switch to accommodate their single odd one who does not speak finnish.



In every country, inability to speak local language will make everything at least ten times more difficult. You trying to convinve people opposite is huge disfavour for them.

Well put dear but what of those who are expected to speak in finnish when they are in the situations you are talking about while finnish is just another difficult language they are trying to manage with????
You go to a bank and no one can serve you because they don't speak english.
What am saying is since ENGLISH is widely spoken there should an affirmative act probably that is too harsh a word but to allow a number of english speakers in certain crucial areas.
Another issue is even if english is something you picked on the way do you want to tell me there are no finns who have invested in english speaking countries or seeking medical attention there????
I think the answer is tolerance and understanding i see many ENGLISH speaking countries employing a fin,a den,french,german,irish,scotish because they have accepted we are international and we are ready to mix and give good service to our best ability to whomever tolerance acceptance so FINLAND is embracing the world why can't the finns.

[Tiwaz]

Name jobs which are not niche jobs of highly specialized nature and do not require finnish.

Software Development. Engineering, builder, doctor, surgeon. Even dentist could work without finnish or with very basic.

Software, only because it's "in" to use english. Engineering... So and do.
Builder, yes but only because there arent enough builders right now.

And then you get into idiotic part. Surgeon, doctor... There ARE few of those guys I have heard of who have poor finnish skills. And people feel nervous to go see them.

Why? Because it's bloody doctor! If he cannot speak excellent finnish, how can I be certain that fool is not prescribing me <word censor> to heal my high bloodpressure?


It's not like any medical business does not have prerequirement of being able to communicate effectively with patient.

Name jobs where you can regularily expect to be forgiven inability to communicate with finns.

Finns very ease to communicate in English. You should not feel guilty.
They English could be limited, but still OK for communication.

You again forget something... Finns are not only highly educated youths (amongst whom there are plenty of those with atrocious english skills) but also elderly. And another detail is if finnish people WANT to use english to handle their business IN FINLAND. Which effectively is not the case.


And Faithful, those who move into foreign countries should think about language before moving. That is one of the main advices given in this forum. English is widely spoken and odds are that in most places if need is high enough they will eventually find someone who speaks english. But english is not official language and odds are against it ever becoming one.

Assuming that country changes to accommodate immigrants is rather arrogant one don't you think? I do not expect to go elsewhere and receive service in finnish.

And what makes you think finn who is trying to get a job abroad is going to have easy time if he does not speak local language?

No habla languago localo, no jobo! That is cruel reality everywhere. It's not like Finland is exception.