ParkCom

[raamv]

http://www.oikeusasiamies.fi/Resource.p ... /index.htx
for public complaints
http://www.kuluttajavirasto.fi/ for companies

[raamv]

So again: no whining intended but just bringing up what I thought was valid 'food for thought' Pardon any misunderstanding.

I guess now that you see the point of a "Finnish Language" giving you insight into the Finnish Mindset and culture..
One of the biggest surprises that you find here is the passive-resistance as compared to aggressive-give-in...or passive-compliant!!

[catfish78]

I do not understand what the point is about only 3 cars in the lot. What does that have to do with anything.
Everyday I see tickets on cars that are parked where they should have. There is a sign in front of my building that says if you park here you agree to be rules posted. And everyday these people agree to be fined because no one bothers to read the sign.

My advice to you would be to read the signs before parking, look before you park. If you had done so this thread would not exist.

[raamv]

Still the question really is: can one just post a sign on their own property with whatever conditions they want and assume it is an enforceable contract?

You can always try!!

I have a house in Espoo. Can I put a sign on it saying - if you walk on my lawn it will cost you 1000 Euro - in Finnish of course. ??

You can , but the City has a law that says that you cannot do that!!
Thy dont have a law that says that parkcom or a company like that cannot put a sign like that..so Parkcom does it..

Then when I get a picture of them on my lawn, I send them an invoice for 1000 Euro and if they don't pay I take it to court?

If you are able to afford it..do it by all means..because, Finland has bankruptcy protection for companies..but not individuals..

That is even 'looser' than sending an invoice for their car when I don't know WHO put the car there.

If you can find out the owner of the car..then its upto the owner to dispute the evidence..

[catfish78]

Point about the 3 cars in a lot for 40 at 1900 is that people here have written of SUVs parking during the day and taking buses to the city and 'using up' parking etc.

And they are breaking the rules as well and deserve a ticket as well.

And so no social irresponsibility occurred.

according to whom?

Your theory about what would be on this forum would, on analysis, mean that if people would use Google and their telephone and their work colleagues (and in many cases, common sense), no one should post anything

There is a difference in whining because you got a ticket or asking information at out curiosity.

Still the question really is: can one just post a sign on their own property with whatever conditions they want and assume it is an enforceable contract?

I have a house in Espoo. Can I put a sign on it saying - if you walk on my lawn it will cost you 1000 Euro - in Finnish of course. ??

you might want to consult the city.

[Hank W.]

As said: Helsinki Liisa's do not run around looking for some outlying area where someone is parked 'illegally' just willy-nilly - and in such a way that there is no evil consequence to anyone - nor creating unsafe circumstances, etc.

Come park in front of my house. The Vantaa Lisa comes around 6.30 to fine the 4-hour spots...

[raamv]

Would be wondering about that. Corporations have been set up in the world on the basis of them being handled as individuals (14th amendment to US Constitution one example of what's behind US Corp set-up). So would have some real suspicions that what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Doubt that the corporate law is US style...across the EU..
Corporations around the world have been setup on the model of the First one since 100s of years ago ( First corp model is the East India Company)..
So Forget the 14th when you are here..
At least here, corporations are not individuals..but individuals can be corporations ( TMI, OY etc)

[Rob A.]

Interesting thread....I am sympathetic...these kinds of companies...parking and towing companies tend to take advantage of weaknesses in human nature..you know, being in a hurry and not reading the signs; forgetting how long you've been parked somewhere; getting held up at, say, a doctor's appointment.... Calling them fascists and gestapo isn't good ...it kind of waters down really serious abuses... I like to think of them as "vultures" or "parasites"...

I get the impression you're not exactly a young guy, so why haven't you learned these lessons by now?? Look at it logically...if you can do something about it, go for it ...you know, check to see if all the details on the ticket are correct or don't pay and see what they do...but be prepared to accept the consequences, if negative... or since this is a private company, they may be receptive to "persuasion"...maybe you have some "clout" somewhere or know someone who does... Now I assume Finland will be similar to here in that regard..if it's a public agency that won't work, but if it's a private company, anything is possible. But be realistic...(i.e. would there be anything in it for them??) ...if you're a "nobody", then you're a "nobody" ...Pay the fine and move on, resolving not to fall into that trap again in the future...

[Rob A.]

Actually my own take is the hell with ParkCom and the hell with the 40 Euro - I am basically interested in how the idea of setting out a contract in a passive way can be considered enforceable - combined with them not doing anything to be able to prove WHO read the bloody contract and did the 'dirty deed.'

There is a bigger fish to fry here - and I've done it before and got some interesting things understood and changed.

Ahhh... a sh*t disturber!!! ...Good for you!!... Without guys like you we would all still be serfs on some liege lord's sheep farm or something...

One of my buddies is one of those sh*t disturbers....If he's on the receiving end of even the slightest bit of injustice, he'll lauch a law suit....and he has had some amazing victories...losses too, of course...

Back in the 1980s he went after a rather notorious car dealership in Ontario...even their TV ads were so slimy, I knew enough to stay away... But he "nailed them good"....the provincial consumer rights agency got involved, the company when into bankruptcy and one of the principals, either died from a heart attack or "disappeared" with a bunch of cash...can't remember which now...

Lots of other examples...went after a bank and won, went after an insurance company and lost... Lots of interesting stories....

[Mattlill2000]

Back in the 1980s he went after a rather notorious car dealership in Ontario...even their TV ads were so slimy, I knew enough to stay away... But he "nailed them good"....the provincial consumer rights agency got involved, the company when into bankruptcy and one of the principals, either died from a heart attack or "disappeared" with a bunch of cash...can't remember which now...

Was that "Any pal of Dini is a pal of mine" Paladini??????

Interesting thread, but it reinforces my belief on why I prefer to live in Nowheremäki. No jobs there so Kerava will do just fine.

[Rob A.]

Back in the 1980s he went after a rather notorious car dealership in Ontario...even their TV ads were so slimy, I knew enough to stay away... But he "nailed them good"....the provincial consumer rights agency got involved, the company when into bankruptcy and one of the principals, either died from a heart attack or "disappeared" with a bunch of cash...can't remember which now...

Was that "Any pal of Dini is a pal of mine" Paladini??????

Interesting thread, but it reinforces my belief on why I prefer to live in Nowheremäki. No jobs there so Kerava will do just fine.

Hi Matti... No, although I kind of remember that guy, it wasn't him I'm thinking about, but he could have been one of the principals, I just don't remember now... I checked the web, but couldn't find a connection. And I'm rather reluctant to mention the dealership and the name, as I see the dealership name is still in use and it looks like it's even at the same Mississauga location, though the principals are different... Don't want to unnecessarily trash what might be a legitimate business...if any car dealership can be considered "legitimate"...

EDIT: I found some information on Al Palladini... It had nothing to do with him...but I remember him well now, quite the personality... He owned a different auto dealership...Pine Tree Ford Lincoln in Woodbridge... Al's demise from a heart attack in 2001, age 57, seems to have been associated with a very bitter divorce proceeding... Nothing to do with my friend... Palladini was rather well liked and, just prior to his death, was a cabinet minister in the Ontario provincial legislature...

[mCowboy]

Vantaa MunCourt ruled in favor of a car owner by disputing Parkcom's right to issue tickets, since that's only allowed by the police or city officials.

http://www.hs.fi/kaupunki/artikkeli/Aut ... 5232588022

[hychamaz]

Here is another link on the courts decision in English:
http://www.yle.fi/news/id77637.html

[littlefrank]

'Here is another link on the courts decision in English:
http://www.yle.fi/news/id77637.html'

So there you are next time you're there, rip down the sign, slice it up with a metal saw and tell 'ParkCom' that the contract isn't worth the metal it's written on.



Don't go to Britain though



http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story ... 34,00.html