immigrants, gay &Kela

[Tiwaz]

I'm not quite sure I understood your post, Tiwaz, in any case I had thought there is such a concept of "common law marriage" for gay couples, such as the kind of "official registration of gay couples" that exists nowadays in several European countries: like Germany, the Netherlands, the United Kingdom. But good that you correct me in that it doesn't exist in Finland, for some reason I had thought there is such a thing here too.

But -- the issue of gay marriage doesn't really have much to do with the poster's question. I brought it up because I thought it could be one way (out of many) out of the bureaucratic/insurance-related muddle that the poster seems to have got herself in.

Registered partnership exists, yes. But it is more comparable to actual marriage than cohabitant/common law marriage/whatever avoliitto is called.

And it actually can have significance, at least here it was presented as possibility that if their relationship were to be acknowledged she would be somehow entitled to some things she currently is not getting. Since I have little to no knowledge on exact matters I won't say more about that. Except that it is true that any accepted partnership tends to have effects on your benefits.

My better half has not received much benefits since we are in avoliitto and as such my income reduces her possible unemployment benefits (when she was applying for some).

[blaugrau]

Registered partnership exists, yes. But it is more comparable to actual marriage than cohabitant/common law marriage/whatever avoliitto is called.

Ah, that's good to know. Yes, I meant that concept of "gay marriage" as one solution to the problems, even though I think it's really not necessary for the poster and her problems can be sorted out without it, but maybe it's good to mention it as one solution.
As a heterosexual couple, you can get social insurance from Kela on grounds of an avoliitto, but since this concept doesn't seem to exist for gay couples, I was thinking that they could go one step "more official" and therefore brought up the issue of the gay marriage thing. My impression is that the question of the original poster didn't only concern the opintotuki but simply the fact of health insurance from Kela.

[sy]

AFAIK there is no concept of common law marriage for gay couples.
If you think for a while you realise why... (hint, I am hetero and I spent great deal of my study time in same apartmen as other male...)

Common law marriage or co-habitation is same for straight or gay couples in Finland. You just have to prove that you have lived together as a couple for at least two years.

[blaugrau]

Well, the signficance of common law marriage and which rules apply in terms of the length of cohabitation vary across the authorities:

for getting health and social insurance from Kela, you don't have to prove any specific lenght of cohabitiation (in fact, no cohabitation at all) as a heterosexual couple (but the precondition is that you already registered on some other grounds at the maistraatti and police).

For the police and the maistraatti, your relationship status counts only once you can prove you have cohabited with your heterosexual partner for at least 2 years before moving to Finland -- then you get immediately permanently domiciled status -- and can reap all the benefits in terms of opintotuki or labour market subsidies.

[fla08]

I'm at the moment a bit confused but, I know people who have been in Finland as much as I have, as partner of a finnish citizen and they have all Kela benefit, with no work bases.

[enk]

Slightly OT, but have you tried Seta yet? The Rainbow section is for families
and you have to send one of the people listed after "Moderated by:" to gain access to it as it's restricted access.
There are a number of multicultural families there and more than likely someone is going through the same
thing you and your partner are. If nothing else, try giving the Seta office a call, or have your partner do it.

Cheers,
-enk

[blaugrau]

some questions to alleviate our common confusion:

- when did you first get paper from the police that confirms you being registered
- what did it say on that paper in terms of reason for moving to Finland
- have you given this paper to the maistraatti
- on what grounds did you register at the maistraatti (work?)
- did you get a paper from the maistraatti that specifies an expiry date of your henkilötunnus
- after you got that paper, did you ever go to the maistraatti again and did you fill in an "muutosilmoitus" (in order to re-enter you into the populationregister as "permanently domiciled")

(your friends with partners and benefits, did they maybe live together with the finn for at least 2 years before they moved here? that's most probably the reason why things were a bit smoother for them. But no need to despair, it's all perfectly possible to get this thing straightened out, I believe)

[fla08]

I got my first paper from Maistratti in the beginning of match, No expiring date.
My oficialization is in the beginning of June, in the paper of the police they don't write anymore the reason for coming to finland.
I moved to Helsinki and than I had my status in Maistratti as a student
Now as now I have a permanent residence permit.
And unfortunately I'm sure that the ones I know didn't live toghether before coming to Finland, but they got registrered maybe for family reasons, but not marriage, avo-whatever

[blaugrau]

- what do you mean by "officisalisation"
- there is no such thing as a residence permit for EU citizens, as mentioned above. What do you mean you now got a "permanent residence permit" -- what is it that you "got", what did you do, who did it to you?

[fla08]

Since I had only a part-time job in the begnning at the polce they wanted my bank statementes proving that I had earned more than 900€ per month for I don't remember if 3 or 4 months. Later I took them and also another working contract, and they gave me a paper. Oleskelolupa (??)

[blaugrau]

So that means simply that you are registered with the police, and this does not have anything to do with your permanent status.

If the maistraatti thinks you are a student, this makes things tricky, because your status as a foreign students severely limits the access to benefits from the Finnish state. Kela doesn't regard you as permanently living here, therefore you don't get opintotuki nor labour market subsidies. However, you can still get at least the health insurance, if you get yourself a part-time job of at least 18 hours a week. Then you get the insurance from Kela for as long as your working. Once you stop working (after at least 4 months), they reconsider if you're now "regularly" living in Finland or if you're still "just a foreign student" (which for them equals with not living in Finland with permanent intentions and therefore they don't want to give you benefits).

In short: there is no chance for opintotuki for the time being, but you can get health insurance if you start working in the same job for at least four months. After the four months, you probably will be regarded as "permanent" by Kela and will get access to their goodies.

Here is the relevant passage from the Finnish Kela pages:

"EU/ETA-maista ja Sveitsistä Suomeen muuttavat opiskelijat ja tutkijat eivät yleensä pääse Suomen sosiaaliturvan piiriin, koska heidän oleskelunsa Suomessa on tilapäistä. Heillä on kuitenkin oikeus välttämättömään sairaanhoitoon tilapäisen Suomessa oleskelun aikana eurooppalaisella sairaanhoitokortilla.

Jos työskentelet Suomessa opintojesi aikana, sosiaaliturvasi määräytyy työskentelyn aikana samalla tavalla kuin muillakin työntekijöillä. Jos olet opiskelun ohella vähintään neljä kuukautta kestävässä, työssäoloehdon täyttävässä työssä Suomessa, sinut voidaan ottaa Suomen sosiaaliturvan piiriin työskentelyn ajaksi. Kun työskentely päättyy, oikeutesi Suomen sosiaaliturvaan ratkaistaan sen perusteella, asutko Suomessa tilapäisesti vai vakinaisesti."

[fla08]

No, but the act is that for example at the moment i get benefit from the Social, I guess that I made another mistake not going to maistratti before starting to study ( of course I would have done it, but I wasn't advice, nor at the police [ I remember asking if I needed to do anything else]. But isn't there anything to do in this case?

[blaugrau]

See what I posted above in my edited post. The social services have maybe different rules than Kela, I have no idea about how things work for them.

So after you got that paper from the police, did you give it to the maistraatti?

In any case, I think the key to your problems lies in trying to get a part-time job of at least 18 hours a week and keep that same job for four months.

[fla08]

Yeah, I think I'll have to d it again... Now I really feel like 1 idiot, but this is also due to the lack of information in english, despite now I kind-of-speak finnish. But, wel, yeah this country is quite hard for foreigners
But thanks for the advice.
p.s. do u think that if I'll be working for 4 month 18 h x week, and I'll get my kela kortti, that when I'll end it I will be able to keep it?

[blaugrau]

Yes, I think that should do the trick.

So what you need to do now is get a 18hrs job and then go to Kela and apply for health insurance on grounds of your job. You need to bring the work contract and all kinds of possible documents (the paper from the police, the paper from the maistraatti, your passport etc. The exact list I think is somewhere on the net, but safest to simply bring all you have, incl passport photos).

They will send you their decision in the post, might take shorter (2 weeks) or longer. They will send you your Kela kortti in a separate envelope.
By the way, you can choose if you want to get a picture-Kela card -- which can be quite handy as it works as an ID in many situations (but there are certain limitations), that would cost 25 Euro. But you don't have to do that, you can simply get the normal Kelakortti and that doesnt cost anything.