WORK IN FINLAND

[Karhunkoski]

( See karhunkoski's post on no one wanting to interview people who dont speak Finnish.) when they dont speak Finnish at all unless they have niche skills, recommended contacts ( sometimes even these are hard ). and it Takes a LOONG time to get those kind of contacts who will forward your resume or recommend you to their company.

Just for the record, ( ) it isn't the not speaking Finnish, it's being an "unknown". If you're good enough, some companies can see through your lack of fluent Finnish, or (as you correctly say later on), if you have niche skills.

[Tiwaz]

Sinikala, why bother, its obvious he has it backward thinking blinkers on, several people have explained but they do no take anything. Tiwaz for a start thinks he is supiorer, JUST becasue he speaks a language hard to learn which is not needed to live here. many many examples you and myself being two. and his comment "its life, deal with it" is aimed more at himself

Superior? For these conditions... Hell yes!

If it is such a breeze to live in Finland while being unable to communicate in local languages...

Why we have very few people saying it's a breeze (mainly shrecher) and dozens who write along lines "I'm here now, stuck, no work. Can't figure out what happens where. Can't understand anything. HELP!"

Please, explain this to me.

[antstar]

Sinikala, why bother, its obvious he has it backward thinking blinkers on, several people have explained but they do no take anything. Tiwaz for a start thinks he is supiorer, JUST becasue he speaks a language hard to learn which is not needed to live here. many many examples you and myself being two. and his comment "its life, deal with it" is aimed more at himself

Superior? For these conditions... Hell yes!

If it is such a breeze to live in Finland while being unable to communicate in local languages...

Why we have very few people saying it's a breeze (mainly shrecher) and dozens who write along lines "I'm here now, stuck, no work. Can't figure out what happens where. Can't understand anything. HELP!"

Please, explain this to me.

What conditions? jesus! you do love yourself!!most people on this forum have jobs!you guys seem to think just because you find it difficult everyone else should!! it just takes a bit of planning and work, you don't have to be Finnish or speak the languag (although it helps). i think your just trying to push people away! Foreigners are here, and taking YOUR jobs!! you live with it!

[sinikala]

Have you gentlemen ever thought that every time people have to translate papers for you into english, it is extra inefficiency/cost.

That is why immigrant is never on even playfield with native. Native forms baseline. You bring extra expenses, so unless you have something to counter those expenses with. You are not worth it.

It's life. Deal with it.

Nobody translates papers into English for me, if documents are generated in English they are for the benefit of our offices outside of Finland or for our customers. I don't need things translating, if there's a word I don't know then MOT usually has the answer.

Your quite right about the playing field - I'm not on a level playing field with the natives, I wouldn't be working here if I was. The extra expense that I bring is that I get paid 20% more than most of my colleagues. My employers seem to think I'm worth it.

Deal with what?

Serious question ... do you know what a xenophobe is?

[shrecher]

Why we have very few people saying it's a breeze (mainly shrecher) and dozens who write along lines "I'm here now, stuck, no work. Can't figure out what happens where. Can't understand anything. HELP!"

In IT there are quite of few "random" people, who came here just seen a lots of opened jobs ads. When they get in trouble they blame everything (like they race, non-Finnish language, etc) except they luck of demanded skills and experience. Next category, fresh graduates. Finland is not best place for this group. Again the same case, blame symptom (no work), but not the actual reasons such as no skills and no experience. This is so self relaxing to say "I'm here now, stuck, no work, as I'm not a Finn. I'm good, but country has so cryptic language, so I can't do anything really".

[Hank W.]

Serious question ... do you know what a xenophobe is?

A foreigner too lazy to learn Finnish?

[Tiwaz]

Nobody translates papers into English for me, if documents are generated in English they are for the benefit of our offices outside of Finland or for our customers. I don't need things translating, if there's a word I don't know then MOT usually has the answer.

Your quite right about the playing field - I'm not on a level playing field with the natives, I wouldn't be working here if I was. The extra expense that I bring is that I get paid 20% more than most of my colleagues. My employers seem to think I'm worth it.

Precisely. Do you think you would be hired if there had been finn or relatively same level of proficiency to be hired?

No.

Deal with what?

Fact that, as foreigner in country of not your origin... You are not going to be able to live and succeed in same ways as you would at home.

Shrecher is right saying that your only hope is to have high enough level of competency in field where you do not happen to run into similar native competition to counter your language inefficiency.

Are you often in contact with finnish customers by the way?
Using what language?

International business is not that big for most mid-small size companies. They have lots of finnish clients (or finnish branches of international companies) as well.

And, when you are providing the service to client, it is client who has to feel most comfortable. People feel most comfortable speaking native language.

Serious question ... do you know what a xenophobe is?

*sigh* I don't think we are in Kansas Toto... I think one has to accept that things are not like they were in Kansas.
Don't blame others for xenophobia when you are one who cannot speak local language.

Language is very much ultimate expression of culture. If you cannot use it, you are not assimilating.
If you are not assimilating, you are potentially problem. (example, mini Pakistan in UK mentioned by Antstar)

Taking immigrants is good for economy, making sure they assimilate is more important.
And, as mentioned...
Assimilation starts at language.

[raamv]

Serious question ... do you know what a xenophobe is?

I thought that you were describing yourself..
Well I didnt know that people who fantasize about animals like you do are also known by that name!!

[shrecher]

Language is very much ultimate expression of culture. If you cannot use it, you are not assimilating.
Taking immigrants is good for economy, making sure they assimilate is more important.
And, as mentioned...
Assimilation starts at language.

First of all, "true assimilation" is not a goal, this is good bonus, but not goal. Nice that my kids born here speak Finnish, have friends among Finns, go local school. The actual goal is earning money, good carrier, have safe and secure life. To reach the goal it is ok to not speak Finnish language. Apparently, as long as I have good savings I can get back to home country at any time and enjoy life there. Or find job in other country with different language. Basically, people like me are guest workers only, no shame in it.

Next, because work and business take a lot of time (9+ hour per day) and effort, it is over my power to spent 2 hours a day for language. If I would do spend time and effort on language something will suffer: job, family. Do I need it? No, if I can nicely get my goal without language, why should I spend time on language?

[rinso]

First of all, "true assimilation" is not a goal, this is good bonus, but not goal. ...... The actual goal is earning money, good carrier, have safe and secure life.

To me it looks like you're mixing means and objectives. To have a good/pleasant/save life for you and your family seems the main objective. Money is only a means the help with it. And assimilation also helps to make your life more pleasant.

[shrecher]

First of all, "true assimilation" is not a goal, this is good bonus, but not goal. ...... The actual goal is earning money, good carrier, have safe and secure life.

To me it looks like you're mixing means and objectives. To have a good/pleasant/save life for you and your family seems the main objective. Money is only a means the help with it. And assimilation also helps to make your life more pleasant.

You forget about priorities. In priority order:
1. family, life safety, etc
2. money
3. carrier path
4. job security
5. assimilation.

Assimilation is not top priority. It will be good to know the language unless it hurts for first four. However, if I start spending time and significant effort on language it will prevent me either from carrier or from family. Lean learning language at just couple hours in a week is senseless as it is just draining the time. For my carrier it is better to improve the English language (this is actually the reason why I keep posting here .

[Hank W.]

Basically, people like me are guest workers only, no shame in it.

So then it is no shame for us to tell "go home if you don't like it" when guest workers complain and whine. Now look at this logically: someone complains and whines and gets something changed. *Who* is going to live with the consequences? He, who leaves or he who stays? So why should we listen to/befriend/bear someone who "comes, whines and leaves" - the faster they leave the better if all they do is whine Thus those people committed to here, those who "stay" are in a better position as they're believed to join the others and eat the pulla after they convince everybody to use gravel as raisins Assimilating is a way to show you "want to belong". Of course people have "plan B" but depending on your career though number 5 might effect 3 and thus 2 and 4

For my carrier it is better to improve the English language (this is actually the reason why I keep posting here)

Me three.

[shrecher]

Basically, people like me are guest workers only, no shame in it.

So then it is no shame for us to tell "go home if you don't like it" when guest workers complain and whine.

Sure, I have no problems you say "go home if you don't like it". However, I like it, I like my job, I like Finnish nature, colleagues, life stile, etc. My company likes me, I brink it the profit. The Finnish state likes me as pay the big tax. Why should I go home, at least now?

Depending on your career though number 5 might effect 3 and thus 2 and 4

That is OK. There are other countries, who warm welcome me. I have no problems in finding work (again due to eduction/experiences/skills/references). However, unlikely it will happen, as Finland getting far more international now, than it was 10 years ago.

[Hank W.]

Why should I go home, at least now?

Well you're not complaining and whining are you?

[Hank W.]

I have no problems in finding work

Yeah, but you won the lottery on that. Theres still people out there scratching tickets.