Here we go again..another school shooting

[sammy]

I agree. Something is wrong. But I also think that parents are ill-equipped to cope these days and life is such that they have too little time to deal with the problems faced by their kids (which are more complex than generations ago). eg: How many parents out there actually know how to monitor exactly what their kids are doing on the internet? My guess: not many (and I include myself in that number).

If schools do not want to assume the role of surrogate parents then they have to be more open to parents and dialogue with parents. In fact they need to be more proactive in encouraging parents to come in to school. Many Finns I have spoken to do not even know the name of their children's homeroom teacher, or even the name of the headmaster of the school

Yep, and the "five whys method" can give some pretty disturbing answers to some of those questions, or rather 'states of affairs' - for example:

"parents are ill-equipped to cope these days and life is such that they have too little time to deal with the problems faced by their kids"

So let's make that a question instead just a problem we 'need to accept'

1) Why is life such that parents have too little time for their kids?

-> answer 1,

then 2) ask "why (insert answer 1)"?

etc. It would be sort of interesting to see what examples of the "fifth answer" people here would come up with...

[kay30]

My 5 Why's: Why is life such that parents have too little time for their kids?
1. It is very hard to get by one just one income
2. Because the cost of housing and the "things" we need all take lots of money
3. Because many of us want to live in/near a city and have easy access to goods, services, entertainment, and...jobs
4. Because we want to enjoy the little free time we have off from work and have opportunities
5. Because free time/opportunities is what energizes us to do (more) work.

Then again, have parents ever had enough time for their kids? What about when they had to work on farms? Did they all work together? Or was there just less access to weapons those days?

[Rabs]

what am i hearing?

the first shooter a year ago and this shooter are friends .....? and there is a this girl who knows about all this....??

[Pursuivant]

If schools do not want to assume the role of surrogate parents then they have to be more open to parents and dialogue with parents. In fact they need to be more proactive in encouraging parents to come in to school. Many Finns I have spoken to do not even know the name of their children's homeroom teacher, or even the name of the headmaster of the school

well that is what you hippie treehugging parents asked for - if we had the nuns whacking the kids with the poker on bad grammar... look at Iltalehti today, the bloke had 3 close friends, had been to Hungary on an exchange for being a good student... *damn* I was more weird and more outcast and these kids just watch youtube...

[starviego]

Check out the photo at this link:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7630969.stm

Notice anything odd?

Bullets don't glow orange when leaving the barrel. Proof that this photo has been photoshopped. And that makes you wonder what else has been falsified/made up. But the quote about a large caliber weapon being heard at the scene? That was not made up:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread393937/pg3
-We have a serious situvation on our hands.
A big caliber weapon is being used and repeatedly fire chief Ahti Yli-Mannila from the rescue department of South Ostrobothnia told iltalehti briefly after the shootings began
[http://www.iltalehti.fi/uutiset/2008092 ... 8_uu.shtml
Täällä on vakava tilanne käynnissä. Isolla aseella ammutaan ja kovaa, palopäällikkö Ahti Yli-Mannila Etelä-Pohjanmaan pelastuslaitokselta kertoi Iltalehdelle hetki ampumisen alkamisen jälkeen.]

------------
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/09 ... index.html
Tapio Varmola, who was visiting the school at the time, told CNN he was in a building about two blocks away when the shootings occurred. After the shootings, he said, he heard students shouting. Police came about 10 minutes after they were called, Varmola said. "It took two hours to get this situation ended," he said.

Comment: Two Hours??? What the hell were the cops doing? Waiting for the shooter to run out of ammo? Quaking at the prospect of facing up to the pea shooter(.22)? Or were they ordered to wait outside as the special forces op team cleaned up after their dirty work inside?]

[Andrew_S]

Check out the photo at this link:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7630969.stm

Notice anything odd?

Bullets don't glow orange when leaving the barrel. Proof that this photo has been photoshopped. And that makes you wonder what else has been falsified/made up. But the quote about a large caliber weapon being heard at the scene? That was not made up:

The Bolshevik Broadcasting Company has a political agenda of its own to pursue.

I believe that some of their website article descriptions were "elaborated" without evidence and indeed contrary to available information.

But people should believe the Truth (Pravda) nevertheless.

[starviego]

what am i hearing? ...the first shooter a year ago and this shooter are friends .....? and there is a this girl who knows about all this....??

Details? Where are you hearing this?

[TampereOwl]

Why should schoolkids be getting better psychiatric care than the rest of us? What about that guy who killed his family in Ylivieska this summer, the murderer in Kerava who was on a waiting list for treatment?

[Chrysoberyl]

Notice anything odd?

Bullets don't glow orange when leaving the barrel. Proof that this photo has been photoshopped. And that makes you wonder what else has been falsified/made up

That's the powder still burning when the bullet exits the barrel,genius.

[Pursuivant]

And that makes you wonder what else has been falsified/made up.

the insides of your cranium?

[Tiwaz]

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread393937/pg3
-We have a serious situvation on our hands.
A big caliber weapon is being used and repeatedly fire chief Ahti Yli-Mannila from the rescue department of South Ostrobothnia told iltalehti briefly after the shootings began
[http://www.iltalehti.fi/uutiset/2008092 ... 8_uu.shtml
Täällä on vakava tilanne käynnissä. Isolla aseella ammutaan ja kovaa, palopäällikkö Ahti Yli-Mannila Etelä-Pohjanmaan pelastuslaitokselta kertoi Iltalehdelle hetki ampumisen alkamisen jälkeen.]

And he would know this how? He is FIREchief, not police. Firefighters were not even permitted anywhere in the school until after police had secured area. Firemen don't necessarily know what is big gun and what is not. This guy is just giving his own, most likely uneducated, guess. Specially since he did not have any access to site at the claimed time of this comment.

------------
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/09 ... index.html
Tapio Varmola, who was visiting the school at the time, told CNN he was in a building about two blocks away when the shootings occurred. After the shootings, he said, he heard students shouting. Police came about 10 minutes after they were called, Varmola said. "It took two hours to get this situation ended," he said.

Comment: Two Hours??? What the hell were the cops doing? Waiting for the shooter to run out of ammo? Quaking at the prospect of facing up to the pea shooter(.22)? Or were they ordered to wait outside as the special forces op team cleaned up after their dirty work inside?]

You have to be stupid to assume everything is over when shooting is over. Police will be still conducting search, for example possible bombs left behind, and start the investigations.

What stupid people who like tinfoil hats fail to grasp is that this was not place somewhere in the sticks, and that everyone was killed. In fact, most students at the school survived, to my knowledge including classmates of Saari (and thus eyewitnesses) and nobody speaks of men in black.

[Rosamunda]

Why should schoolkids be getting better psychiatric care than the rest of us? What about that guy who killed his family in Ylivieska this summer, the murderer in Kerava who was on a waiting list for treatment?

The Kerava guy was not long out of school. I think the rationale is that if you deal with these issues when kids are small, they can help themselves better when they are older. There were some programmes on UK TV last week about Anger Management. There was an interesting case of a girl who had been a real difficult toddler, throwing uncontrollable tantrums every day. She was referred to a specialist (educational psychologist? psychiatrist?) who followed her for several years and taught her how to cope with her emotions. She turned in to a reasonably well-balanced teenager. It was her mother who had rung the alarm bells and sought out help. Typically in the UK middle class families seek help, whereas poorer families just muddle through (or not). About 5 or 6 yrs ago Channel 4 did an EXCELLENT documentary on dyslexia in boys. They followed a group of psychologists from Cambridge Uni into a prison for young offenders. The group identified various levels of dyslexia in 30% of the detainees (versus a national average of 5-10%). None of those boys had ever been diagnosed as dyslexic or received any special ed in school. If they had been helped earlier on, they may not have left school and turned to crime. OK, so nothing directly to do with Saari or Auvinen, but psychologists and psychiatrists do have their uses, they can help children and parents who need it.

[TampereOwl]

I'm not at all sure it's a good approach to ensure that you have to be a possible killer to get mental health care. Surely mental health services in general need investment, along with anything you might do specifically for kids? It's not healthy for middle aged men to kill their families, but CNN doesn't come and cover that.

[sinikettu]

Now the story come a bit clearer into todays Int Hesa..
Some 3 witnesses escaped from the classroom and have given info.

1: One of the victims could well have been his friend who filmed the YouTube shots

2: He seems to have "executed" the victims at close range.
(No witnesses reports of black helicopters or SAS style Hit Squads.. sorry starviego ).

3: He enjoyed himself. SICK

http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Gunman ... 5239731067

Another artice related illustrates some Police BS/excuses.
The regular Police cannot monitor YouTube in Finland. Only a few specialists.
Read what the police say is the reason and then what head of R and D at F Secure says.

http://www.hs.fi/english/article/NBI+to ... 5239731533

[Rabs]

what am i hearing? ...the first shooter a year ago and this shooter are friends .....? and there is a this girl who knows about all this....??

Details? Where are you hearing this?

http://www.iltalehti.fi/kauhajoentraged ... 3_kj.shtml

i am not sure what's in it since it's in finnish but ......i was told something like that!!