How to use Finnish "late" word?

[Pursuivant]

Heres one for your class Rob.
Dracula meni ravintolaan: "Saisinko litran kokista?"

[Rob A.]

Isällä menee töissä myöhään. = “Dad will have to stay at work till a late hour.”

(The last one – note the adessive – probably deserves a separate discussion thread on its own...

Thanks for the detailed discussion on the "ins and "outs" of the word myöhä and it's various declensions and derivatives.... I could understand most of it, in principle, though some of the distinctions are quite subtle....but as you say....ennemmin tai myöhemmin...it will sink in ...

English tends to cover all of these "myöhä" possibilities with just the words, "late" or "later"...and, then, it seems it's context, usage patterns, and whether the word is being used as an adjective or adverb, that will govern its meaning or sense....

Saying, "He came to work late.", will almost always have a negative connotation....If you want the statement to be neutral, or even positive, you have to say, "He came to work later.", or use some totally different word order.... With Finnish, the basic word, "myöhä" itself, can be modified to give these shades of meaning.

And it is useful to know that some of what appear to be declensions to us "FSL" ....or maybe I could sy...suomi toiseksi kieleksi, ...types, are actually lexicalized forms.....

[Rob A.]

Heres one for your class Rob.
Dracula meni ravintolaan: "Saisinko litran kokista?"

Ah yes....not too difficult for me these days.... "Could I have a litre from/of the cook/Coke?"... partitiivi v. elatiivi....

[Rob A.]

"It was a dark and stormy night; the rain fell in torrents, except at occasional intervals, when it was checked by a violent gust of wind which swept up the streets (for it is in London that our scene lies), rattling along the housetops, and fiercely agitating the scanty flame of the lamps that struggled against the darkness."

And here's my effort...

[...]

Oli synkkä ja myrskyinen yö; sade tuli kuin saavista kaatamalla, paitsi hetkittäin kun raju tuulipuuska puhalsi katuja pitkin….(koska paikkamme on Lontoossa), täristellen kattoja, ja rajusti ravistellen lamppujen heikkoja liekkejä jotka taistelivat synkkyyttä vastaan.

Hey, that’s really quite good! Well done. My corrections:.....

Thanks again....and, of course, I did get help on my second version....a lot of help....

I'll ask one quick question, though....basically the distinction between "täristellen"...."to shake continuously", in the second infinitive form, and "täristellemässä"/"täristellessä""

"Täristellen" carries the English meaning, "while shaking continually".
"Täristellemässä"....I think this just carries the meaning, "shaking continually", as a kind of "static" activity by itself...?????

"Hän oli täristellemässä juovan viinan takia."

"Täristellessä ....this variation which seems it should be the "easiest" form ....yet I can't seem to get the sense of how to use it... .....unless it's simply just an adjective and would be used in this manner:

"Hän oli täristellessä talossa."....????...

[Jukka Aho]

I'll ask one quick question, though....basically the distinction between "täristellen"...."to shake continuously", in the second infinitive form, and "täristellemässä"/"täristellessä""

"Täristellen" carries the English meaning, "while shaking continually".
"Täristellemässä"....I think this just carries the meaning, "shaking continually", as a kind of "static" activity by itself...?????

Täristellen answers the question ̇“how was he doing it?” Täristellen. He was doing it by shaking/rocking/rattling (some object, continually or repeatedly.) Puoliksi rikkinäinen juna kulki eteenpäin vaivalloisesti; täristellen raiteita ja ratapölkkyjä.

Täristelemässä answers the question “what was he doing” (at the time when something else happened). Jumala oli täristelemässä mannerlaattoja kun hänen vaimonsa soitti ja käski lopettaa.

Täristellä = “to cause trembling/shaking/jolting/rocking” – a bit unusual word. You would usually only use it in sentences where the subject is a natural event, such as an earthquake, or a heavy machine which causes vibrations on the ground, such as a steamroller or a train.

"Hän oli täristellemässä juovan viinan takia."

Hän tärisi juomansa viinan takia.

"Hän oli täristellessä talossa."....????...:D

Hän tärisi talossa.



   “Aurinko laskee selkäsi taa (=taakse)
    se värjää sun hiuksesi punaisellaan...
    (refrain:) Ja käsi kädessä kuljemme taloon autioon
    ja se minua niin ravistaa...”

(Dingo — Autiotalo)

[silk]

Täristellen answers the question ̇“how was he doing it?” Täristellen. He was doing it by shaking/rocking/rattling (some object, continually or repeatedly.) Puoliksi rikkinäinen juna kulki eteenpäin vaivalloisesti; täristellen raiteita ja ratapölkkyjä.

Jukka, I think this sentence would be better translated as "A half broken train travels forward laboriously; while shaking the rails and the blocks" rather than "...by shaking the rails and the blocks". Täristellen can mean both "by shaking" and "while shaking", depending on the context. What do you think?

"Hän oli täristellessä talossa."....????...

Hän tärisi talossa.

And if it was the house that shook, it would be Hän oli tärisevässä talossa.

[Jukka Aho]

Täristellen answers the question ̇“how was he doing it?” Täristellen. He was doing it by shaking/rocking/rattling (some object, continually or repeatedly.) Puoliksi rikkinäinen juna kulki eteenpäin vaivalloisesti; täristellen raiteita ja ratapölkkyjä.

Jukka, I think this sentence would be better translated as "A half broken train travels forward laboriously; while shaking the rails and the blocks" rather than "...by shaking the rails and the blocks". Täristellen can mean both "by shaking" and "while shaking", depending on the context. What do you think?

Yes, you’re correct – and that was the intended interpretation, anyway, what with the semicolon and all – but in Finnish it stills answers the “How?”, “In what/which manner?” (Kuinka? Miten? Millä tavalla?) question:

K: Kuinka (millä tavalla) juna kulki eteenpäin?
V1: Vaivalloisesti.
V2: Täristellen raiteita ja ratapölkkyjä.

[Rob A.]

Thanks...it's slowly sinking in...

Could you give me a simple example using the word, täristellessä??....I still can't grasp the sense of this word.....

And I think I have the consonant gradation correct with this word....but it is surprisingly difficult with these "double t" and "double l" words....

a.ja.tel.la
a.jat.tel.en
a.jat.tel.ev.a
a.ja.tel.ta.va

Have I got the syllables right????...

[Jukka Aho]

Could you give me a simple example using the word, täristellessä??....I still can't grasp the sense of this word.....

Paljon kauniita, historiallisia tai muuten eksoottisia näkymiä vilahteli ohi bussin täristellessä kuoppaisia teitä eteenpäin.

Yöllä tuli pesukoneen pöristessä ja täristellessä mieleen, kuinkahan paljon linkoavan pesukoneen tärinä/värinä rasittaa vanhan talon rakenteita? (Source)

a.ja.tel.la
a.jat.tel.en
a.jat.tel.ev.a
a.ja.tel.ta.va

Have I got the syllables right????...:D

The words are correctly spelled, but these two should be hyphenated as follows:

a.jat.tel.en → a-jat-te-len
a.jat.tel.ev.a → a-jat-te-le-va

That’s also how a native speaker would emphasize the individual syllables if they were trying to speak VE-RY SLOW-LY and CLEAR-LY.

[Rob A.]

Could you give me a simple example using the word, täristellessä??....I still can't grasp the sense of this word.....

Paljon kauniita, historiallisia tai muuten eksoottisia näkymiä vilahteli ohi bussin täristellessä kuoppaisia teitä eteenpäin.

Yöllä tuli pesukoneen pöristessä ja täristellessä mieleen, kuinkahan paljon linkoavan pesukoneen tärinä/värinä rasittaa vanhan talon rakenteita? (Source)

I guess I was thinking of a simple sentence where you also provide the English translation so I can see exactly the sense of how the word is being used... But I'll, of course, take what I'm given... Thanks....

a.ja.tel.la
a.jat.tel.en
a.jat.tel.ev.a
a.ja.tel.ta.va

Have I got the syllables right????...

The words are correctly spelled, but these two should be hyphenated as follows:

a.jat.tel.en → a-jat-te-len
a.jat.tel.ev.a → a-jat-te-le-va

That’s also how a native speaker would emphasize the individual syllables if they were trying to speak VE-RY SLOW-LY and CLEAR-LY.

Thanks Jukka...I see that now, of course... it wouldn't have the "double t" if the syllable was closed... Oh well....

[silk]

Could you give me a simple example using the word, täristellessä??....I still can't grasp the sense of this word.....

Paljon kauniita, historiallisia tai muuten eksoottisia näkymiä vilahteli ohi bussin täristellessä kuoppaisia teitä eteenpäin.

Yöllä tuli pesukoneen pöristessä ja täristellessä mieleen, kuinkahan paljon linkoavan pesukoneen tärinä/värinä rasittaa vanhan talon rakenteita? (Source)

I guess I was thinking of a simple sentence where you also provide the English translation so I can see exactly the sense of how the word is being used... But I'll, of course, take what I'm given... Thanks....

Would this be helpful:

Täristellen answers the question of how or in what manner/way something happens.
For example: Juna liikkuu täristellen. "The train moves in a rattling way."

Täristellessä Something happens while something else is in a state of rattling.
For example: Näkymät vilahtelivat ohi bussin täristellessä. "The scenery flashed by while the bus was rattling."