saatakoomme

[Satish]

Okay.. this sentence from the internet has me really stumped..

Käyttäkäämme se hyväksemme ja saatakoomme parempia äänituottehia kuulluksi.

The only thing I have worked out is that
käyttää hyväkseen = to seize an opportunity

In terms of guessing:
1) saatakoomme = some form of saada
2) tuottehia = colloquial spelling for tuotteita
3) saada kuulluksi = special participal construct meaning somehow managed to be heard (Original reference of special participial forms from Jukka)

So... This sentence could mean

Let us seize that opportunity and may better sound products be somehow heard by us.

Uugghh...

Hauskaa Vappua guys!!

[Rob A.]

Okay.. this sentence from the internet has me really stumped..

Käyttäkäämme se hyväksemme ja saatakoomme parempia äänituottehia kuulluksi.

The only thing I have worked out is that
käyttää hyväkseen = to seize an opportunity

In terms of guessing:
1) saatakoomme = some form of saada
2) tuottehia = colloquial spelling for tuotteita
3) saada kuulluksi = special participal construct meaning somehow managed to be heard (Original reference of special participial forms from Jukka)

So... This sentence could mean

Let us seize that opportunity and may better sound products be somehow heard by us.

Uugghh...

Hauskaa Vappua guys!!

Interesting challenge Satish...

Käyttäkäämme se hyväksemme ja saatakoomme parempia äänituottehia kuulluksi.

The first part seems pretty good.. "Let us seize this opportunity..." /"Let us exploit it...."

....I'm not sure whether this clause has a specific or general sense...

.... saatakoomme seems to be some sort of present imperative passive form....You're version seems reasonable to me...though I'm not sure why the word, "somehow" is in there....???? Sorry I can't offer much more than this...

[Pursuivant]

Been reading a gramophone advert from the 1920?s eh?

[Rob A.]

Well...further research has yielded this:

http://wiki.verbix.com/Verbs/AllFormsOf ... ts.Finnish

It would appear that saatakoomme is a form in the optative mood... which in modern Finnish is apparently used as an "archaic" or "formal imperative".... and, thus, as P. has indicated, is considered flowery and oldfashioned by modern Finns.... "poetry" language, I would say.

So it seems your translation is pretty good...though I think you would want to leave out the word "somehow".... I guess you should be reading modern Finnish books...

[EP]

There is no "somehow" in that sentence. And in my mind "saatakoomme" is not right even in old-fashioned language. It should be "saakaamme".

[Pursuivant]

I think it means "let us make better records" rather than "let us hear better records"

[Rob A.]

There is no "somehow" in that sentence. And in my mind "saatakoomme" is not right even in old-fashioned language. It should be "saakaamme".

I was wondering about that... whether the verbs in these two clauses should show a bit more "balance"...i.e., the verb forms being more similar....

Käyttäkäämme....second person plural imperative present tense...but saatakoomme suddenly in the second person plural optative present tense...with seemingly no good reason for the change in verb mood....

The only google hit I got on the whole sentence was a Facebook link, so it's possible someone is just fooling around with the language they are using ....shifting to a biblical form for effect....

I'm also curious about the translative use following both verbs. In the first instance...hyvä seems to be an adverb in the translative case with a possessive ending.... Is this correct?? ...I found two entries for "exploit"...käyttää hyväksi and käyttää hyväkseen....

In the second clause we have, kuulluksi...is this the current spelling??....would it be the same as, kuuloksi???...or is it a nominalized form of kuulua??...

[Satish]

Aahh!! So many replies and I have had too many Vappuaatto champagnes....

Been reading a gramophone advert from the 1920?s eh?

No! But I do have Yiddish community radio from NY in the 1920s and that is really a blast!

Käyttäkäämme....second person plural imperative present tense...but saatakoomme suddenly in the second person plural optative present tense...with seemingly no good reason for the change in verb mood....

Do you mean 1st person plural optative?

I'm also curious about the translative use following both verbs. In the first instance...hyvä seems to be an adverb in the translative case with a possessive ending.... Is this correct?? ...I found two entries for "exploit"...käyttää hyväksi and käyttää hyväkseen....

Yeah, I think so...

In the second clause we have, kuulluksi...is this the current spelling??....would it be the same as, kuuloksi???...or is it a nominalized form of kuulua??...

I think kuulluksi is the right spelling. FINTWOL confirms it as the singular translative case of the passive past participle of kuulla...

By the way, any ideas on what äänituottehia means?

[Rob A.]

Käyttäkäämme....second person plural imperative present tense...but saatakoomme suddenly in the second person plural optative present tense...with seemingly no good reason for the change in verb mood....

Do you mean 1st person plural optative?

...Yes, of course...1st person plural...

In the second clause we have, kuulluksi...is this the current spelling??....would it be the same as, kuuloksi???...or is it a nominalized form of kuulua??...

I think kuulluksi is the right spelling. FINTWOL confirms it as the singular translative case of the passive past participle of kuulla...

Seems to make sense...kuultu, passive past participle ...... Consonant gradation to "l" with the addition of the translative suffix, because the syllable is being closed....

By the way, any ideas on what äänituottehia means?

Hank gave us a bit of a clue ..."record making" in the sense of making sounds or tones.......

[Jukka Aho]

By the way, any ideas on what äänituottehia means?

The literal translation would be “sound products”, just like in your original suggestion. (You didn’t give too much context but I guess that would mean “records” here.)

Why tuottehia instead of tuotteita? Tuottehia is a dialectal partitive form; still in use at least in the South Ostrobothnia region colloquial speech. There’s probably a thorough morphological explanation of such forms somewhere but I couldn’t find any online paper that would go deep into the details.

[Rob A.]

By the way, any ideas on what äänituottehia means?

Here's another example of ääni used as part of a compound word.....Valo- ja Äänipalvelut ..."Light and Sound Services"

And äänitys seems to be the word for the actual activity of making a sound recording....

interesting ....I see the Finnish word for "vote"....the noun... is also ääni and "to vote"=äänestää....the idea of "sounding" for someone.... And while we're at it...the English word, "vote" is related to the word, "vow", both from the Latin, voveo... which I suppose has the same sense of articulating for something....

[Jukka Aho]

And äänitys seems to be the word for the actual activity of making a sound recording...

That’s correct.

interesting ....I see the Finnish word for "vote"....the noun... is also ääni and "to vote"=äänestää....the idea of "sounding" for someone.... :D

Since ääni can also be translated as “voice” maybe you could think of it as voicing your opinion or support for someone... (I’m not saying that would be the obvious literal interpretation, though.)

[alesich]

There is no "somehow" in that sentence. And in my mind "saatakoomme" is not right even in old-fashioned language. It should be "saakaamme".

I agree, EP. To me it seems that saakaamme would give more 'balance' to the sentence than saatakoomme.

I am interested to understand the subtle difference in translation if the sentence used saakoomme (optative mood, active voice) instead of saatakoomme (optative mood, passive voice). Thanks!!

[Jukka Aho]

I am interested to understand the subtle difference in translation if the sentence used saakoomme (optative mood, active voice) instead of saatakoomme (optative mood, passive voice). Thanks!!

The entire question is fairly academical. The optative is a rarely used mood. When it is used, it is usually in the 2nd person (active) singular. You will only encounter those forms in older texts; mainly in old poetry or lyrics. Most native speakers would probably treat a word like saatakoomme as a spelling problem of some sort.

VISK even goes as far as to bluntly claim the optative mood only exists in the 2nd person singular. It could be argued whether those tables listing all the moods in all persons reflect actual usage or whether they’re just a completionist, academical attempt at deriving “all the forms”, however implausible they might be; having little to do with actual usage. I would tend to side with the latter view – it is probably much closer to the truth.

In spoken language, though, you do see shortened 2nd person optative mood forms quite often. Their marker is -s, such as in “Tules tänne!” “Kuules nyt!” (Whether this actually is the modern manifestation of the old optative mood or just an affix of some sort is subject to debate, I guess.)

[inkku]

I hope anybody who actually wants to learn functional, contemporary Finnish will NOT read this thread and try to understand what is it about (only philologically interested....). That language is not proper finnish, it is an imitation of archaic languages which is intended to be humoristic (IMO on top of that "saatakoomme" is erronous). This kind of attention to cases and expressions which are not in use in colloquial Finnish just consumes the energy people should devote to learning the Finnish we speak and write in everyday life.

In Finnish the sentence would sound:

Käytetään se hyväksi, jotta saadaan parempia (ääni)levyjä.

Nobody would use that language. Being able to analyse that sentence would help you to read Kalevala in Finnish but not to communicate at work or similar.