Minuksi

[vn]

Terve kaikille!

"Hauska tutustua" for those who don't know me and "pitkästä aikaa" for everyone who... remembers me! lol

I haven't been on this site in a looong while! But now I'm studying suomea again and... voilà! Here I am!

And I have a question for you...

I was wondering... how often are the personal pronouns used in the translative?

I mean, I tried to google "use of minuksi" and I found 9 websites with the same example:

'häntä luullaan usein minuksi', 's/he is often mistaken for me'

lol

Are there other cases in which the words minuksi, sinuksi, etc., are used?
Or is it just with the verb luulla?

[Rob A.]

And I have a question for you...

I was wondering... how often are the personal pronouns used in the translative?

I mean, I tried to google "use of minuksi" and I found 9 websites with the same example:

'häntä luullaan usein minuksi', 's/he is often mistaken for me'

lol

Are there other cases in which the words minuksi, sinuksi, etc., are used?
Or is it just with the verb luulla?

I searched around a bit as well...not many useful examples on the web....and many of the entries are the usual plagarism.... "shrug"

First though, I would think about what the sentence is actually saying using a "Finnish mindset".... In other words, a literal translation.... the verb luullaan is in the "fourth" person and has the sense in English of, "one believes...."...häntä in the partitive, is the direct object of the sentence and has the sense of, "him/her" , and, minuksi, has the idea of becoming something or being in the role of something...

Thus, a more literal translation would be:

"Her/him, one believes often to be me."

Other examples? How about:

Hän tuli sinuksi.

...not easy to think of any more examples.... ....Maybe a native speaker can come up with a few ....

[FinnGuyHelsinki]

Other examples? How about:

Hän tuli sinuksi.

As one cannot actually become another person, that doesn't make much sense. 'Tulla sinuiksi', 'olla sinut' on the other hand has a meaning of accepting something for what it is, coming to terms with something or being at ease/at peace/comfortable with something, as in 'Hän tuli sinuiksi tilanteen kanssa' ('He came to terms with the situation'), 'Hän on sinut itsensä kanssa' ('He is comfortable with himself').

[Rob A.]

Other examples? How about:

Hän tuli sinuksi.

As one cannot actually become another person, that doesn't make much sense. 'Tulla sinuiksi', 'olla sinut' on the other hand has a meaning of accepting something for what it is, coming to terms with something or being at ease/at peace/comfortable with something, as in 'Hän tuli sinuiksi tilanteen kanssa' ('He came to terms with the situation'), 'Hän on sinut itsensä kanssa' ('He is comfortable with himself').

Ahh, yes....the "literal-minded" Finns....

How about:

Susi tuli meiksi. .... Or if we reversed the fate of Lot's wife...

Suolapatsas tuli/muuttui häneksi.....No????...

[Pursuivant]

Other examples? How about:

Hän tuli sinuksi.

As one cannot actually become another person, that doesn't make much sense. 'Tulla sinuiksi', 'olla sinut' on the other hand has a meaning of accepting something for what it is, coming to terms with something or being at ease/at peace/comfortable with something, as in 'Hän tuli sinuiksi tilanteen kanssa' ('He came to terms with the situation'), 'Hän on sinut itsensä kanssa' ('He is comfortable with himself').

yes, but also you must remember in old literature and good manners "sinunkaupat"!
It means :become familiar
it means, you can call him you instead of mr.
modern times it is not an issue - and you donot have "sinunkaupat"

so : two people "tulla sinuiksi" is they can address each other familiarly instead of herra professori

one person tulee sinuiksi... If they wake up drrunk with a prince albert
in old times addressing each other in a familiar manner required a formality

[AldenG]

Et voi muuttua minuksi.

[AldenG]

one person tulee sinuiksi... If they wake up drrunk with a prince albert

I guess that's something you didn't have to worry about when you lived in the security of the blue-white motherland.

But now that you're IN Prince Albertland, you have to be more careful, eh?

[Pursuivant]

Piercing mornings... ( they showed that on the telly so thats how I know)

[Rob A.]

How about this:

Häneksi oli melko tyhmä käytös.???

What does this turn into when translated to English???

[AldenG]

How about this:

Häneksi oli melko tyhmä käytös.???

What does this turn into when translated to English???

Magical marbles?

I can't make heads or tails of it.

On second thought, are you trying to say something analogous to "There was a strangeness to him?" It doesn't work (in your example) but I'm trying to put myself into your thought.

[mrjimsfc]

(Story to your child) "and that ugly baby became you."

[Rob A.]

How about this:

Häneksi oli melko tyhmä käytös.???

What does this turn into when translated to English???

Magical marbles?

I can't make heads or tails of it.

On second thought, are you trying to say something analogous to "There was a strangeness to him?" It doesn't work (in your example) but I'm trying to put myself into your thought.

Oh well...it's all practice.... I was trying to say:
"For him/her it was rather strange behaviour."...

It's back to the "drawing board", I guess....

[Edit: My first thought is that you would probably have to use the elative....Hänestä oli melko tyhmä käytös.....???]

[Rob A.]

Some more thoughts...using a Canadian stereotype....

It requires a prior statement for the indrect object of the second sentence to refer to.

Useimmat kanadalaiset ovat kohteliaat.
Hän oli meiksi epäkohtelias.

I think I'm saying:

"Most Canadians are polite.
He was for one of us impolite.".... Or not....

[AldenG]

Now I see what you were getting at. I can't say for sure whether you can get there with -ksi but at the very least you need a subject.

"Häneksi tuo oli tyhmää käyttäytymistä." X

Whether or not something close to that is doable I'll have to leave for another to say. One problem I feel here is that behavior and a person are not congruent to combine with translative.

I also can't say about your later example but I would bet it would be to have meikäläiseksi or kanadalaiseksi instead of meiksi.

If I were going to attempt it that way, I would say Hän on hämmästyttävän epäkohtelias [ihminen] kanadalaiseksi or Hän käyttäytyi hämmästyttävän epäkohteliaasti kanadalaiseksi -- or more likely Hän on hämmästyttävän epäkohtelias ollakseen kanadalainen. But I can't definitely vouch for any of these. I put the [ihminen] there in brackets to emphasize that with or without it, you are talking about a person, so -ksi is [almost] translating noun-to-noun and not quality-to-noun. I guess that's also part of why I don't feel that meiksi works but possibly meikäläinen could. In the latter, the trasnlation you are making is 1-to-1, in the former 1-to-millions.

But (embarrassingly, for such a simple construction) I find myself floundering in my boundary waters here.

[AldenG]

I'll give it another go'round now after driving home, without reference to the original example (which often confuses me even when editing English).

Here's how I find myself wanting to say these things:

Hän on aika/liian lyhyt painijaksi. He's pretty/too short for a wrestler.

Hän on liian tyhmä kanadalaiseksi/meikäläiseksi. He's too dumb to be a Canadian (or one of us).

Hän on aika tyhmä ollakseen kanadalainen. He's pretty dumb for (in order to be, i.e. to be) a Canadian.

Häneltä tuo oli aika tyhmää käyttäytymistä. That was pretty dumb behavior [coming] from him.
Häneltä tuo oli heikko esitys. That was a weak presentation/performance [coming] from him, compared to his usual standard.

Tuo oli aika heikko esitys tullakseen häneltä. That was a pretty weak performance to [have] come from him. (pseudo-literally "in order to come from him.")

Assuming my instincts are mostly right, I think you were close in spirit but the key piece you were missing was the ollakseen/tullakseen, which helps smooth over incongruencies between the two sides of the -ksi equation.

But don't take it all to the bank just yet. Better wait for confirmation or correction.