Prices in Finland

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Jukka Aho
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Re: Prices in Finland

Post by Jukka Aho » Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:26 am

penelope wrote:S-Group is a bit different. My understanding is that it isn't a limited company as such but operates more like a cooperative which means the decision making process is completely different to a public limited company. That makes comparisons difficult and competition almost impossible. But it doesn't mean that there is anything illegal going on.
Here’s the English Wikipedia article about the S Group:
And here’s a bit more information from their official site – see the links on the sidebar as well:


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Re: Prices in Finland

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FinnGuyHelsinki
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Re: Prices in Finland

Post by FinnGuyHelsinki » Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:54 am

penelope wrote:But it doesn't mean that there is anything illegal going on.
AFAIK Standard Oil Company wasn't doing anything illegal, either.

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Felidae
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Re: Prices in Finland

Post by Felidae » Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:00 am

Upphew wrote:How much is salmiakki in UK? How much is Linna shampoo in NY? The demand is probably similar.

Shame that the Lidl is Ky, it certainly would be nice to see how they do.
Salmiakki is Finnish specialty and Linna shampoo is not quite comparable either. From Finnish products maybe Lumene and Xylitol chewing gums are more popular also abroad. Paul Mitchell is sold worldwide, so it's not rarity in that sense. (Did find it on 40% discount this weekend, very happy about that :D. )

True, would love to see some Lidl figures. Apparently the prices are 30% higher than in Germany and still they make profit now, when people have realised that you get also Finnish products there. Also their latest tv campaign was quite funny, playing with the prejudices of people.
ajdias wrote:I heard the same from a mate of mine. Would be interesting to see some solid data (like how many people from City X sit on the board/have paid gigs with Group X.)
I'm not sure if there is any data available as such, but if one has time and patience, many of them can be sorted out, at least here in Helsinki area. S-group board candidates are advertised before the election and often there are quite few politicians there, Ben Zyskowicz has been one of them for years. It would be better that this kind of connections were not possible, we have seen already, what are the results of it.

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Re: Prices in Finland

Post by Upphew » Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:07 pm

Felidae wrote:Salmiakki is Finnish specialty and Linna shampoo is not quite comparable either. From Finnish products maybe Lumene and Xylitol chewing gums are more popular also abroad. Paul Mitchell is sold worldwide, so it's not rarity in that sense. (Did find it on 40% discount this weekend, very happy about that :D. )
Well, I had to google the PM shampoo and Coffee mate... who in their right mind puts such a thing to their coffee?!? So both your examples sound like foreign specialty to me. "Over 25 ways to add your flavor..." sheesh! What next? People try to sell flavor to be added to a single malt?

edit.
Felidae wrote:S-group board candidates are advertised before the election and often there are quite few politicians there, Ben Zyskowicz has been one of them for years. It would be better that this kind of connections were not possible, we have seen already, what are the results of it.
While I agree that politicians in S-group are like foxes guarding hens...but who to put there instead of them?
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Rosamunda
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Re: Prices in Finland

Post by Rosamunda » Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:58 pm

Upphew wrote: Shame that the Lidl is Ky, it certainly would be nice to see how they do.
Ditto re Ikea.

There's a programme on TV tonight about Ikea's taxes.

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Felidae
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Re: Prices in Finland

Post by Felidae » Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:46 am

Upphew wrote:[Well, I had to google the PM shampoo and Coffee mate... who in their right mind puts such a thing to their coffee?!? So both your examples sound like foreign specialty to me. "Over 25 ways to add your flavor..." sheesh! What next? People try to sell flavor to be added to a single malt??
I can do easily without Coffee Mate, even though it does add a nice taste. My boyfriend is Canadian and likes it, so who am I to tell him not to use it. It is Nestle brand and is significantly cheaper in UK for example, so would not think it's that rare.
Upphew wrote:While I agree that politicians in S-group are like foxes guarding hens...but who to put there instead of them?
Finland is a small country, but nevertheless I am optimistic and believe, that there are enough competent people in the country, who can take care of S-group management without having to be a politician making decisions regarding S-group market places etc., which is distorting the competition (the little that we have here).

jmakinen
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Re: Prices in Finland

Post by jmakinen » Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:02 pm

Saw today a good example of the usual Finnish rip-off -

The little bands small girls are putting on their wrist -- 3.95€ at K-mart in Lauttasaari. 0.70€ for similar package in US EVEN WITH a Disney brand name (that I happened to buy last week).

Yeah - guess the freight, rents, taxes, salaries, demand, small market - and whatever other 'excuse' might be generated - explain the factor of 5.5X - why don't Finns just cut out the BS and realize they are living in a rip-off country.

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Felidae
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Re: Prices in Finland

Post by Felidae » Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:03 am

jmakinen wrote:Saw today a good example of the usual Finnish rip-off -

The little bands small girls are putting on their wrist -- 3.95€ at K-mart in Lauttasaari. 0.70€ for similar package in US EVEN WITH a Disney brand name (that I happened to buy last week).

Yeah - guess the freight, rents, taxes, salaries, demand, small market - and whatever other 'excuse' might be generated - explain the factor of 5.5X - why don't Finns just cut out the BS and realize they are living in a rip-off country.
It must be the freight, they are so heavy :lol:. This is exactly what I am trying to say, I refuse to believe, that the cost of shipping from US to Finland makes the product 2-5 times more expensive, than just from US to UK, because that is the most used excuse those few times that this is brought up in the newspapers. And it's not only the price, but the selection. I would like to see different stores selling different goods here, without always being part of some chain and still be affordable.

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Re: Prices in Finland

Post by Upphew » Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:23 am

Felidae wrote:
Upphew wrote:[Well, I had to google the PM shampoo and Coffee mate... who in their right mind puts such a thing to their coffee?!? So both your examples sound like foreign specialty to me. "Over 25 ways to add your flavor..." sheesh! What next? People try to sell flavor to be added to a single malt??
I can do easily without Coffee Mate, even though it does add a nice taste. My boyfriend is Canadian and likes it, so who am I to tell him not to use it. It is Nestle brand and is significantly cheaper in UK for example, so would not think it's that rare.
Matter of taste, so we both can be right <3
Btw, Nestle does for example tar ice cream and salmiak ice cream. So you should get them in UK too? :)
Btw2, http://www.nescafe.fi/contact.html ask them if they import that vile stuff and if they don't then why. Also the K-group seems to be happy to get stuff to the stores if you ask nicely and they are available. If the coffee mate has long shelf life, they might try if it sells.
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Felidae
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Re: Prices in Finland

Post by Felidae » Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:50 am

Upphew wrote:Matter of taste, so we both can be right <3
Btw, Nestle does for example tar ice cream and salmiak ice cream. So you should get them in UK too? :)
Btw2, http://www.nescafe.fi/contact.html ask them if they import that vile stuff and if they don't then why. Also the K-group seems to be happy to get stuff to the stores if you ask nicely and they are available. If the coffee mate has long shelf life, they might try if it sells.
Yes, matter of opinion :D. You can get Coffee Mate from K-group, as I already mentioned in my earlier post. The issue is the price difference, in Canada the pack costs around 3 CAD, in UK you get it for £3.25 (500g) and here in Citymarket you pay 8,90 eur (425g) for it. So quite a big price difference, in my opinion. I happen to like salmiak ice cream, but tar...haven't tried it yet :D. But those are practically Finnish specialty and it's already known that most foreigners don't like them at all.

But the Coffee Mate is not the main point here, I am more questioning the prices in Finland in general, no matter what product it is (and the lack of selection in many cases). We are being ripped off and just couple of weeks ago I read from some online newspaper that they want to lower customs and taxation limits on value of things ordered from online stores abroad, because government is losing tax income. I honestly believe, that if for example VAT was lower, the government would get their money through company tax anyway, when people would have more money to use services and buy things here in Finland.

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Re: Prices in Finland

Post by Rosamunda » Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:46 pm

Felidae wrote: I honestly believe, that if for example VAT was lower, the government would get their money through company tax anyway, when people would have more money to use services and buy things here in Finland.
Maybe, but it would appear that nearly every government in Europe disagrees with the maths since they are ALL hiking up VAT. For years European tax harmonisation has been a hot potato but lo and behold the gap in VAT rates is getting smaller and smaller and smaller....

My advice would be: look at the big picture. What price a jar of Coffee Mate when you can get a (fairly decent) education for free...? And BTW, for many years Finnish milk - as in "fresh" and "pasteurised" - was cheaper per litre than almost any other country in the EU. And I have a feeling it is still cheaper here than in the US. (Where are the American fennophiles when you need them??? tuulen?). I'm not convinced that the average Finnish household spends a higher percentage of their disposable income on food than the average American, probably less. I'm sure the stats are out there somewhere. Finns eat porridge (100% rolled oats, cheap and healthy) while Americans eat Kellogg's (processed, expensive and full of salt/sugar and trans-fats). So, how do you make comparisons?

I don't disagree that plenty of stuff is dearer here than in the USA. But I don't think you can assume that consumers are being ripped off and retailers are stacking up the profits and governments filling their coffers because of it. It's more complex than that.

And anyway, Walmart and the likes of aren't exactly world famous as benevolent, philanthropic organisations hell bent on improving the quality of life of the masses.

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Re: Prices in Finland

Post by jmakinen » Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:40 pm

But I don't think you can assume that consumers are being ripped off and retailers are stacking up the profits and governments filling their coffers because of it. It's more complex than that.
There's the BIG mistake - it is NOT the RETAILERS but the importing and wholesaling that rack up the profits!!!! And yes - there is constantly a BIG RIP-OFF - and I've watched it for 40 years!

* and if the chain owns the retailer - S-Market eg - look for nice fat salaries in the administration - it sure in hell doesn't come back to the 'Omaomistaja' crap re S. The Citymarket owners make out pretty well because of the turnover.

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Re: Prices in Finland

Post by mantas » Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:37 am

some things to consider:

1. Maybe Finland is trying to protect itself, to support local products in this way. It would be illegal if it would be done with taxation system, but maybe it is a form done by business. It's just an assumption, because normally business would be interested in selling more.

2. I don't notice Finns to be so obsessed with spending, so if that is really true (I cannot generalize just seeing people I know) then the demand is not that high. So solution would be to limit selection, so that demand would focus on a particular set of products in each group. Now there is a lot of selection, but demand is not that high for all of it, to keep the prices low.

3. Setting a specific price for a product on a shelf very much depends also on prices of other products on the same shelf. So if you set have 'low price' shampoo for 1Eur, then the 'better brand' should have a higher price tag, eg. 2Eur. But this 2Eur price could be 1,2Eur in UK.

How would you compare Finland to Norway/Denmark?
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Re: Prices in Finland

Post by Upphew » Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:41 am

mantas wrote:1. Maybe Finland is trying to protect itself, to support local products in this way. It would be illegal if it would be done with taxation system, but maybe it is a form done by business. It's just an assumption, because normally business would be interested in selling more.
Selling more != earning more
mantas wrote:How would you compare Finland to Norway
They come to buy cheap booze and other stuff from Finland...
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Felidae
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Re: Prices in Finland

Post by Felidae » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:22 am

mantas wrote:some things to consider:

1. Maybe Finland is trying to protect itself, to support local products in this way. It would be illegal if it would be done with taxation system, but maybe it is a form done by business. It's just an assumption, because normally business would be interested in selling more.

2. I don't notice Finns to be so obsessed with spending, so if that is really true (I cannot generalize just seeing people I know) then the demand is not that high. So solution would be to limit selection, so that demand would focus on a particular set of products in each group. Now there is a lot of selection, but demand is not that high for all of it, to keep the prices low.

3. Setting a specific price for a product on a shelf very much depends also on prices of other products on the same shelf. So if you set have 'low price' shampoo for 1Eur, then the 'better brand' should have a higher price tag, eg. 2Eur. But this 2Eur price could be 1,2Eur in UK.

How would you compare Finland to Norway/Denmark?
1. But Finland does not always have a similar product to sell. For example I needed certain type of clothes hangers. The closest (only) option I found from Stockmann and due to poor design two of four broke down within three days, just hanging in the wardrobe (and no, ther was not too much weight on them). Luckily I at least got my money back. I would have ordered them from US, but unfortunately the store in question did not deliver them outside US, so I got them from UK instead. They are good quality and have lasted well, because of the better design.

2. Finns can't be obsessed with spending, because we don't have money to spend as we are being ripped off in many ways. Our purchasing power compared to other EU countries is poor. Selection can and has to be limited in one store, but it wouldn't have to be almost identical in every store. And being different doesn't always mean specialty, just different.

3. The price should depend on the expenses + wanted profit. If the purchasing cost is low enough, there is no obligation to sell the product higher just because there is a cheaper brand next to it (excluding some manufacterer's terms, apparently).

Many Finns, who live in Denmark or Norway, say that the prices are higher there, but so are salaries, so they have more purchasing power anyway. Someone who moved to Germany, said that their living costs are now 30% less and salary 60% higher. That of course depends on the education, too.


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