varta vasten

[Jukka Aho]

Hmmm...when I was looking at that article I somehow got the impression that varta vasten was a fairly strong comment.....carrying the idea that these groups had specifically targeted Finland....

Let’s take a look at the original article again:

Helsingin käräjäoikeudessa on jo vangittu kaksi taskuvarasta viime päivien urakoinnin perusteella. He ovat tulleet Suomeen varta vasten ulkomailta.

I guess the best translation for varta vasten, as far as getting the actual meaning goes, is one of the alternatives Alden suggested: “for the specific purpose (of)”

“The Helsinki district court has already jailed two pickpocketers for their endeavors during the last couple of days. They had arrived in Finland for that specific purpose [of enganging in pickpocketing].”

For example, I think it's doubtful someone would ever say:
Rob A. varta vasten ulkomaalta...Kanadalta...tuli Suomeen vierailemaan.
..I suppose it could be said, but to my admittedly non-Finnish trained ears, it sounds a bit provocative...

There are a couple of problems here. (There always are! Bear with me. :D)

– You don’t generally use a singular ulkomaa in that way. The word is nearly always used in plural... and then it refers to “abroad”, “foreign lands/countries” in general and not to any specific country.

– Secondly, it’s tulla jostakin, not tulla joltakin.

The sentence “Rob A. tuli varta vasten Kanadasta Suomeen vierailemaan” sounds a bit weird since it does not give any reasoning for what that specific purpose actually was. You came here for the specific purpose of... coming to visit here? That sounds a bit circular reasoning. (Or just daft. :D)

But you could say: “Rob A. tuli varta vasten Kanadasta Suomeen tapaamaan Martti Ahtisaarta.” (You came here for the express purpose of meeting this one person. You didn’t have other reasons for visiting Finland.)

However, I imagine you might hear:
Rob A. varta vasten ulkomaalta....Kanadalta...tuli Suomen valtiosalaisuuksien varastamaan..... :lol:

You could say “Rob A. tuli varta vasten Kanadasta Suomeen varastamaan valtiosalaisuuksia.” Then again, if you’re after state secrets, targeting a specific country is a pretty imperative thing, and if you want them, it’s also kind of natural that you’d come specifically to the country where those state secrets are actually located. I mean, what other options did you have? Going to Norway, instead? So maybe not the most natural usage of varta vasten, either.

Varta vasten often also slightly hints you’re making some “concessions” or “sacrifices”, or “enduring” something (maybe slight personal discomfort, spending your time on traveling, spending some extra money, etc.), for the express purpose of ___________. Maybe you weren’t at all enthusiastic about coming here, as such... but came anyway, for the express purpose of _____________, which was the important thing for you.

[Rob A.]

Thank you, Jukka

....always helpful...

....and I seem to be slowly coming to grips with the various "double verb" constructions and those strings of words with genitive case endings....

It's a slow grind, though.....

[AldenG]

Jukka, I think you clinched (and clarified) the matter with the addition of the single word that.

When you translate it as "had come for that specific purpose," the whole thing suddenly becomes clear. In English, the "that" extends the scope of "purpose" beyond the sentence, and I guess those of us to whom it doesn't come naturally simply need to understand that varta vasten is inherently capable of such expanded scope. Or alternatively, just understand that it can be translated as "for that purpose."

[Rob A.]

So does anyone want to humour me and maybe explain how the expression varta vasten came to be??? ...


It seems to mean, literally..."against a handle".... though I'm not really sure if varta is supposed to be an imperative verb or, perhaps, a modified partitive form....

[Jukka Aho]

So does anyone want to humour me and maybe explain how the expression varta vasten came to be??? ...:D

Beats me. In fact, I’ve always wondered about that... (It’s probably related to some obscure agricultural or hunter-gatherer method, concept or tool... the strange words in old expressions usually are.)

It seems to mean, literally..."against a handle"

That would be vartta vasten, with two t’s. But with a single t, it doesn’t appear to “mean” anything in modern Finnish. (Well, VARTA is a German battery brand...)

[Upphew]

So does anyone want to humour me and maybe explain how the expression varta vasten came to be??? ...

Beats me. In fact, I’ve always wondered about that... (It’s probably related to some obscure agricultural or hunter-gatherer method, concept or tool... the strange words in old expressions usually are

Even librarian didn't know the answer:

Ohessa vastaus Kysy kirjastonhoitajalta -palveluun lähettämääsi kysymykseen.

Kysymys:

Mistä on saanut alkunsa sanonta "varta vasten"?

Vastaus:

Kysymykseenne ei löydy valitettavasti vastausta. Sanonnan syntyä on yritetty selvittää Itämerensuomalaista kielikartastoa varten, mutta se on jäänyt epäselväksi.