Political change?

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foca
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Re: Political change?

Post by foca » Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:32 pm

adnan wrote:
foca wrote:thus stating that a Finn living in Uk adds to "multiculturalism" (in political aspect of that term) is essentially wrong.
Are you kidding me?! I've good experience with both countries, and I can tell you, with 100% confidence, that Finland and the UK are extremely different countries with extremely different cultures.
Wow, where should I start? The food, drinking habits, folklore, history (recent, modern, pre-modern, all the way a 1000 years ago), the public's psyche towards every single social issue, world influence, intentionality, Jesus.. the language (6 f*cking branches up the classification tree), social manners, approach to politeness, and I could go on and on for an hour! And that's only England! Let's not talk about the rest of the UK which is so so different from England itself.
So, no, no no no no, absolutely not. You cannot through a deeply misinformed statement like that (borderline disinforming) and expect everybody to just pass by it like nothing has happened.

A Finn in the UK is indeed bringing a great deal of cultural difference, and a Brit in Finland is bringing a very new cultural perspective.

P.S. I have no clue why people confuse integration with loss of identity and believe that you can either have your national identity or be integrated, but not both. You can maintain your identity while conforming to pretty much every social aspect in your host country. Then again, some people believe in angels.. so, yeah.
You are essentially right and essentially wrong .. Yes Finns and British are different in almost everything , if you look from within, and yet for a person who live in Bangladesh or China they are almost , incomprehensibly identical. For Europeans who have lived through the age of enlightmeht and creation of national states it is so important to see the difference between, let us say ,Germans and French , and yes they are different , but their cultural affinity is enormous. One can talk about the differences between Germans and Dutch for hours , but if the situation calls for it they end up on the same side of the barricade.
Finns are somewhat late addition to the European picture, but their culture and to some extent their traditions have become similar to swedish (since not only knights and lords moved to Finland , but swedish peasants too) and do not take me wrongly it is not an attempt to revive the overlords complex in Finns , it is just stating simple facts. Having accepted (and assimilated and changed ) foreign culture and confession , Finns have emerged as distant cousins of Normans and are accepted as such by the rest of Europe (even if in their own perception they might view themselves differently).
A Finn in uk would bring a cultural difference within a certain accepted norm (that norm includes a hectic spaniard , a frozen sweed, and a champagne drinking french etc) , he/she would not change the picture by introducing an alien vision of the world . In a second or third generation a Finn would lose his/hers specific peculiarity in England, irrespective of the fact if he/she maintains the language.
Multiculturalism in its political sense , if brought to the utter line, calls for unexptable : for creation a society governed by separate sets of rules for people of different cultures living in one country for the sake of maintaining of separate ethnic identities , which , in turn leads to further separation of cultural and civic identities of the populace.


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Re: Political change?

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foca
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Re: Political change?

Post by foca » Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:50 pm

Marsh04 wrote:The UK and Finland are socially and culturally as much similar as Finland and Russia.
Well, 100 years ago ( before the social experiments in Russia) certain places in Russia and in Finland could feel very much the same. There would be fishing, sauna , similar crops, similar dispersed rural settlements, quite the similar attitude to the state church etc....especially if you bear in mind that Russians had lived and mixed with Finnic people for centuries
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Re: Political change?

Post by Honest » Thu Feb 05, 2015 6:45 am

foca wrote: Yes Finns and British are different in almost everything , if you look from within, and yet for a person who live in Bangladesh or China they are almost , incomprehensibly identical.
For a Bangladeshi Russians and Finns are also the same. Your argument is weak. Even Swedes would not agree that they are the same as Finns let alone the English. English culture is very different from Finnish culture in almost every aspect.

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Re: Political change?

Post by Oho » Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:54 pm

Marsh04 wrote:The UK and Finland are socially and culturally as much similar as Finland and Russia.
Russia is in many key aspects language included closer to UK than Finland.

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foca
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Re: Political change?

Post by foca » Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:26 pm

Honest wrote:
foca wrote: Yes Finns and British are different in almost everything , if you look from within, and yet for a person who live in Bangladesh or China they are almost , incomprehensibly identical.
For a Bangladeshi Russians and Finns are also the same. Your argument is weak. Even Swedes would not agree that they are the same as Finns let alone the English. English culture is very different from Finnish culture in almost every aspect.
And a Bangladeshi would not be that wrong...I never said that swedes are the same as Finns , but they have close cultural affinity. From inside the bubble they are rather different , and might not sit at the same table to have a drink in Stockholm. But while in Thailand they most probably behave the same way, and would be quite happy to share a mug of ale....
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Re: Political change?

Post by mrjimsfc » Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:00 pm

I have an advantage that most of you do not share. I served with the military in Bosnia alongside Finns, Swedes, Danes, Norwegians, Poles and Russians. My job was to talk to the Bosnian people and assess the threat to the U.N. Forces. The Bosnians recognized each of the national groups as separate and distinct from the others. They also agreed that the cultural mores of each of the groups was dramatically different. These views were held across the spectrum of the three cultural aspects of Bosnia, ie. Croations, Bosnians/Serbians, and those of Muslim extract. In other words, there are a few of you who are blowing smoke out of your ..... In case it had skipped your mind, the war in Bosnia was a war between cultures, Muslim and the others. Could it happen in Finland? I know some Finnish soldiers I met in Bosnia who are ready right now!
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Re: Political change?

Post by Marsh04 » Thu Feb 05, 2015 6:07 pm

mrjimsfc wrote:Could it happen in Finland? I know some Finnish soldiers I met in Bosnia who are ready right now!
Bullocks!

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foca
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Re: Political change?

Post by foca » Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:43 pm

mrjimsfc wrote:I have an advantage that most of you do not share. I served with the military in Bosnia alongside Finns, Swedes, Danes, Norwegians, Poles and Russians. My job was to talk to the Bosnian people and assess the threat to the U.N. Forces. The Bosnians recognized each of the national groups as separate and distinct from the others. They also agreed that the cultural mores of each of the groups was dramatically different. These views were held across the spectrum of the three cultural aspects of Bosnia, ie. Croations, Bosnians/Serbians, and those of Muslim extract. In other words, there are a few of you who are blowing smoke out of your ..... In case it had skipped your mind, the war in Bosnia was a war between cultures, Muslim and the others. Could it happen in Finland? I know some Finnish soldiers I met in Bosnia who are ready right now!
Yugoslavia is a good example that shows that people who speak the same language , share genetical lineage and who have lived close to each other for dentures may easily identify themselves with different cultures. Bosniaks feel themselves culturally closer to Turks than to other Slavs . Croatians and Serbs on the other hand split by confessional differences were (and to some extent are ) ready to cut throats of their neighbours for a reason not well known to themselves.
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Re: Political change?

Post by Smedju » Fri Feb 06, 2015 8:26 pm

If Finland keeps on voting these Persuclowns in, I have lost all the respect to this country. For example, one drunk dbag who screws 17 year old...Finland wake the F up.
Last edited by Smedju on Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Political change?

Post by mrjimsfc » Sat Feb 07, 2015 5:56 am

Smedju wrote:Hakkarainen for example, drunk dbag who screws 17 year olds.
This trait is common to many, many politicians world wide.
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Re: Political change?

Post by AldenG » Sat Feb 07, 2015 6:23 am

mrjimsfc wrote:
Smedju wrote:Hakkarainen for example, drunk dbag who screws 17 year olds.
This trait is common to many, many politicians world wide.
Former long-time politician and once Louisiana governor Edwin Edwards seems to be credited with the quote, "The only way I can lose this election is if I'm caught in bed with either a dead girl or a live boy."

But I believe I recall my parents chuckling over that line from a different source at least ten years before Edwards supposedly invented it, so I think he was probably just the first to put an old Washington saw on public record.
As he persisted, I was obliged to tootle him gently at first and then, seeing no improvement, to trumpet him vigorously with my horn.

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Re: Political change?

Post by Upphew » Sat Feb 07, 2015 10:40 am

Smedju wrote:If Finland keeps on voting these Persuclowns in, I have lost all the respect to this country. Hakkarainen for example, drunk dbag who screws 17 year olds...Finland wake the F up.
Yet they seem to be only ones promising any kind of change and only party that can force other parties to take a note what people want. Then persut get labelled populist and I scratch my head and wonder isn't that what all parties should be. Or are we voters just that, votes, and our opinions can and should be ignored between elections.
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mrjimsfc
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Re: Political change?

Post by mrjimsfc » Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:55 pm

Upphew wrote:
Smedju wrote:If Finland keeps on voting these Persuclowns in, I have lost all the respect to this country. Hakkarainen for example, drunk dbag who screws 17 year olds...Finland wake the F up.
Yet they seem to be only ones promising any kind of change and only party that can force other parties to take a note what people want. Then persut get labelled populist and I scratch my head and wonder isn't that what all parties should be. Or are we voters just that, votes, and our opinions can and should be ignored between elections.
Sometimes it makes me wish we could get rid of all of them and start over. Unfortunately, people being the way they are, we would probably end up with the same mess. Sigh....
Socialism has never managed to create anything beyond corpses, poverty and oppression.

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Re: Political change?

Post by Pursuivant » Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:09 pm

adnan wrote: A Finn in the UK is indeed bringing a great deal of cultural difference, and a Brit in Finland is bringing a very new cultural perspective.
Nope, I bring no "cultural difference" to the UK at all. You must mistake me with the "people of the joke"...

A boy and his dad are on a walk.
Dad, why do we wear this cloth on our heads?
Oh son, its to protect us from the desert sandstorms.
Dad, why do we wear these flowing robes?
Oh son, its to protect us from the desert sun and heat.
Dad, why do we wear these sandals?
Oh son, thats to protect our feet from the hot sand.
Dad, ok, desert, so why do we live in Birmingham?


A Brit in Finland is bringing and endless moan of how "things are not like at home" - of course in English as they're too thick to learn the language.

So no, you failed on both points. But I agree on your point on integration. I have lost none of my "Finnish identity"...
"By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes."


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