Advantages of citizenship over PR

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ogiv
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Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:23 pm

Advantages of citizenship over PR

Post by ogiv » Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:07 am

Hello

Please let me know if there are any advantages of taking citizenship over being a permanent resident, apart from being able to vote.

Also, if one gets a permanent residence, then does it mean that I am allowed to live and work in Finland indefinitely without ever having to go back to Migri for another application? Will the PR become invalid if I lose my job?



Advantages of citizenship over PR

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Upphew
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Re: Advantages of citizenship over PR

Post by Upphew » Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:34 pm

ogiv wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:07 am
Hello

Please let me know if there are any advantages of taking citizenship over being a permanent resident, apart from being able to vote.

Also, if one gets a permanent residence, then does it mean that I am allowed to live and work in Finland indefinitely without ever having to go back to Migri for another application? Will the PR become invalid if I lose my job?
Finnish passport for travelling might mean something. While permanent residence is permanent, the card isn't. You need to renew it every 5 years. Then again you would need to renew your passport too every 5 years.
http://google.com http://translate.google.com http://urbandictionary.com
Visa is for visiting, Residence Permit for residing.

ogiv
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Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:23 pm

Re: Advantages of citizenship over PR

Post by ogiv » Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:00 pm

Upphew wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:34 pm
While permanent residence is permanent, the card isn't. You need to renew it every 5 years. Then again you would need to renew your passport too every 5 years.
So while requesting renewal of the PR card, do Migri check the residency conditions? For ex: if I was granted PR on basis of my work and if i lose my job few years down the line, would the PR card ( and hence the PR ) be denied ?

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browndude
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Re: Advantages of citizenship over PR

Post by browndude » Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:26 pm

As far as I know (I asked when I got the card), while the card expires, the PR status does not expire-it is permenant/pysyvä. You just need to renew the card and I don't think they do checks on your employment status.
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betelgeuse
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Re: Advantages of citizenship over PR

Post by betelgeuse » Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:46 pm

ogiv wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:07 am
Please let me know if there are any advantages of taking citizenship over being a permanent resident, apart from being able to vote.
Permanent residence permit will be cancelled if one moves permanently abroad.

FinlandGirl
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Re: Advantages of citizenship over PR

Post by FinlandGirl » Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:21 pm

ogiv wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:00 pm
So while requesting renewal of the PR card, do Migri check the residency conditions? For ex: if I was granted PR on basis of my work and if i lose my job few years down the line, would the PR card ( and hence the PR ) be denied ?
Permanent is permanent, it can only get revoked if you move away from Finland or under exceptional circumstances like having been convicted of serious crimes or if the PR was obtained in a fraudulent way.
Upphew wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:34 pm
Finnish passport for travelling might mean something.
Also for working abroad.

Finnish citizenship would give you and your family a "no permit required" right to live and work in 30 other European countries.

krapulassa
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Re: Advantages of citizenship over PR

Post by krapulassa » Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:55 am

There is a HUGE difference.

Finnish citizenship will also give you right to live in 28 or so other EU countries.

Citizenship cannot be revoked.

Permanent residence can be cancelled upon a conviction of a crime.

In some countries like Australia, permanent residents have been deported after 40 years of living there because they end up commiting a crime.
Last edited by krapulassa on Thu Nov 26, 2020 12:13 am, edited 2 times in total.

ogiv
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Re: Advantages of citizenship over PR

Post by ogiv » Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:17 pm

Hi - Many thanks for your informative responses, I see that the main advantages are the ability to work in other EU countries and the fact that a citizenship can not be revoked under any circumstances.

I noticed that there was a similar thread in 2011 - viewtopic.php?t=52084

In this thread, the original poster asked if there was any difference in the list - (Health care, Free education in schools and universities for children, Welfare, Pension…etc).
misnomere wrote:
Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:07 pm
Hi there,

What is the difference in ‘Benefits’ between Finnish Permanent Resident Visa (Card) and Finnish Citizenship ?

Before answering the question please consider that I am asking this as a foreigner (Non-EU citizen), and I am focusing specifically about the main benefits (Health care, Free education in schools and universities for children, Welfare, Pension…etc).

Couple of people mentioned there was no difference between citizenship and PR on the items included in the list. But i heard that there is a change in the free university education since 2015. So at least this item is now different between citizenship and PR. Is my understanding correct?


One more question - If a non EU woman gets the Finnish citizenship, will her minor son (who already is a citizen of the non EU country) also be eligible for the Finnish citizenship?

Upphew
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Re: Advantages of citizenship over PR

Post by Upphew » Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:57 pm

ogiv wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:17 pm
Couple of people mentioned there was no difference between citizenship and PR on the items included in the list. But i heard that there is a change in the free university education since 2015. So at least this item is now different between citizenship and PR. Is my understanding correct?
Not correct. Citizens of non-EU/EEA countries, who do not have a permanent residence status in Finland, are liable to these fees. https://www.helsinki.fi/en/admissions/tuition-fees
ogiv wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:17 pm
One more question - If a non EU woman gets the Finnish citizenship, will her minor son (who already is a citizen of the non EU country) also be eligible for the Finnish citizenship?
Yes. https://migri.fi/en/citizenship-for-a-child
http://google.com http://translate.google.com http://urbandictionary.com
Visa is for visiting, Residence Permit for residing.

betelgeuse
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Re: Advantages of citizenship over PR

Post by betelgeuse » Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:14 pm

ogiv wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:17 pm
Hi - Many thanks for your informative responses, I see that the main advantages are the ability to work in other EU countries and the fact that a citizenship can not be revoked under any circumstances.
Finnish citizenship can be revoked. The barrier is higher than for permanent residence.

Upphew
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Re: Advantages of citizenship over PR

Post by Upphew » Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:25 am

And if someone is interested, here is FAQ about losing Finnish citizenship. In Finnish of course: https://intermin.fi/usein-kysytyt-kysym ... ttamisesta
http://google.com http://translate.google.com http://urbandictionary.com
Visa is for visiting, Residence Permit for residing.

krapulassa
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Re: Advantages of citizenship over PR

Post by krapulassa » Thu Nov 26, 2020 6:58 pm

Upphew wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:25 am
And if someone is interested, here is FAQ about losing Finnish citizenship. In Finnish of course: https://intermin.fi/usein-kysytyt-kysym ... ttamisesta
"A person who has committed certain serious crimes may lose Finnish citizenship. Such crimes include treason, treason and crimes committed against Finland's vital interests for terrorist purposes."

Let's say you committed the crime of "treason" and looking at a life sentence, and that was the situation you were dealing with, it is irrelevant then what citizenship you hold because your citizenship status doesn't matter within the prison walls. Any such person would be very lucky if they revoked his citizenship and deported him back to his own country.

betelgeuse
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Re: Advantages of citizenship over PR

Post by betelgeuse » Thu Nov 26, 2020 7:57 pm

krapulassa wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 6:58 pm
Upphew wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:25 am
And if someone is interested, here is FAQ about losing Finnish citizenship. In Finnish of course: https://intermin.fi/usein-kysytyt-kysym ... ttamisesta
"A person who has committed certain serious crimes may lose Finnish citizenship. Such crimes include treason, treason and crimes committed against Finland's vital interests for terrorist purposes."

Let's say you committed the crime of "treason" and looking at a life sentence, and that was the situation you were dealing with, it is irrelevant then what citizenship you hold because your citizenship status doesn't matter within the prison walls. Any such person would be very lucky if they revoked his citizenship and deported him back to his own country.
But it does matter when you are eventually released. A life sentence in Finland means that you will be eventually released but there's just no fixed date.

krapulassa
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Re: Advantages of citizenship over PR

Post by krapulassa » Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:19 pm

betelgeuse wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 7:57 pm
But it does matter when you are eventually released. A life sentence in Finland means that you will be eventually released but there's just no fixed date.
A life sentence in Finland means that you will be eventually released, however, I should point out a case in Norway.

Anders Breivik went on a to commit such an offence in Norway in 2011 to attack civilian population. In those days Norway's maximum sentence was 21 years for any crime. So basically he would have been released eventually. But Norway quickly changed laws to allow for a life sentence without the possibility of being released.

FinlandGirl
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Re: Advantages of citizenship over PR

Post by FinlandGirl » Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:29 pm

krapulassa wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:19 pm
Anders Breivik went on a to commit such an offence in Norway in 2011 to attack civilian population. In those days Norway's maximum sentence was 21 years for any crime. So basically he would have been released eventually.
Anders Breivik got 21 years, and after 10 years he is eligible to request parole next year.
krapulassa wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:19 pm
But Norway quickly changed laws to allow for a life sentence without the possibility of being released.
It is not true that Norway has introduced a life sentence, they were only forced by external treaties to introduce a 30 year maximum for cases like war crimes.

If after serving the time a person is still considered a danger to society the person might stay incarnated longer in Norway, but this is something that will be evaluated at that point.

In Europe a life sentence without the possibility of parole is considered an inhuman punishment .


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