on tullut juostua

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j.petsku
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:51 am

on tullut juostua

Post by j.petsku » Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:52 am

Can anyone tell me in what circumstances this construction is used, and/or what shade of meaning it adds beyond the perfect tense?

Examples:
on tullut nukuttua
on tullut käveltyä
on tullut katsottua

Also, it seems to be used only in a passive sense. Can it be used also in an active sentence?



on tullut juostua

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sammy
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Re: on tullut juostua

Post by sammy » Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:30 am



Tällä viikolla on tullut (enimmäkseen) syötyä paahdettua kanaa.

That's one way of translating Jesse's absurd punchline... here, it just means that he's been in the habit of eating something.

If you refer to yourself, "on tullut syötyä" does not differ very much in meaning from "olen syönyt" - it's just a figure of speech. But sometimes it might be used to hint that you've done (or overdone) something you perhaps think was not too wise, like tuli juotua aika lailla viinaa viikonloppuna.

It can also occasionally refer to things that might happen in the future:

Saa nyt nähdä, tuleeko lähdettyä mökille huomenna -> Don't know, maybe I'll go to the cottage tomorrow, let's see...

FinnGuyHelsinki
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Re: on tullut juostua

Post by FinnGuyHelsinki » Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:46 am

sammy wrote: But sometimes it might be used to hint that you've done (or overdone) something you perhaps think was not too wise, like tuli juotua aika lailla viinaa viikonloppuna
I don't agree, the phrase ("tuli tehtyä jotain") itself doesn't imply whether the activity is/was wise or not, that depends solely on the activity and what one might think of it. With the addition of words like 'sitä', 'tuota', referring to the activity, there is connotation that one is emphasizing having done/having plenty of experience of doing something ("on tuota maailmaa tullut kierrettyä").

sammy
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Re: on tullut juostua

Post by sammy » Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:56 am

FinnGuyHelsinki wrote:
sammy wrote: But sometimes it might be used to hint that you've done (or overdone) something you perhaps think was not too wise, like tuli juotua aika lailla viinaa viikonloppuna
I don't agree, the phrase ("tuli tehtyä jotain") itself doesn't imply whether the activity is/was wise or not, that depends solely on the activity and what one might think of it. With the addition of words like 'sitä', 'tuota', referring to the activity, there is connotation that one is emphasizing having done/having plenty of experience of doing something ("on tuota maailmaa tullut kierrettyä").
No, I don't mean the phrase in itself implies remorse or anything like that. It's just sometimes used in such contexts... indeed it can be used in many other ways too.

Tuli juotua aika lailla viinaa viikonloppuna can equally mean, "hey, I drank looooads of booze over the weekend", if you say it in a bragging way.

j.petsku
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Re: on tullut juostua

Post by j.petsku » Tue Aug 17, 2010 6:35 pm

sammy wrote:Tällä viikolla on tullut (enimmäkseen) syötyä paahdettua kanaa.
Thanks! So sounds like a rough approximation of the english "I've been doing X," (in response to something like, "what you been up to?"). So, indicating that the activity has been more or less habitual and is still continuing.

Mitä olet puuhaillut?
No, on tullut joustua maratonjuoksuja.

I've often wondered about this, because it seems that "olen juossut maratonjuoksuja" leaves room for interpretation that this happened many years ago, and the speaker has since quit. (say they haven't seen each other in 5 years and the speaker is beginning a long list of the things he's done :wink: ) Could the construction in question have more of this "recent and ongoing" nature than the perfect tense? English speakers always want to say "olen ollut juoksemassa," which I know sounds bad...

Also, is this construction common in speech?

sammy
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Re: on tullut juostua

Post by sammy » Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:10 pm

j.petsku wrote:Mitä olet puuhaillut?
No, on tullut joustua maratonjuoksuja.

I've often wondered about this, because it seems that "olen juossut maratonjuoksuja" leaves room for interpretation that this happened many years ago, and the speaker has since quit (say they haven't seen each other in 5 years and the speaker is beginning a long list of the things he's done :wink: ) Could the construction in question have more of this "recent and ongoing" nature than the perfect tense? English speakers always want to say "olen ollut juoksemassa," which I know sounds bad...
It can also refer to distant past, just as in your marathon example. Or, it can be "recent and ongoing" (although not at the present moment of course :) )
Also, is this construction common in speech?
I'd classify it as "fairly common" - but not something you'd necessarily hear every day. My guess is that in most situations, people would be inclined to use the "normal and simple" past tense type of constructions... olen juossut... viime kuussa juoksin... etc.

It's best not to overuse it - cardamom is a tasty spice but you don't want to add it to every single dish :beer_yum:

sammy
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Re: on tullut juostua

Post by sammy » Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:23 pm

A propos,

on tullut juostua reminded me of something... you know it's sometimes said that English is a relatively "concise" language, while Finnish resembles Old Entish in the sense that it takes a long time to say something; the words can grow pretty longish what with all the suffixes and what have you.

Someone once pointed out, however, that if you want to translate the following into English, taking into account the different shades of meaning...

juoksentelisinkohan

...you'll end up with something like

I wonder if I should run around without any particular destination

:ochesey:

j.petsku
Posts: 71
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Re: on tullut juostua

Post by j.petsku » Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:32 pm

sammy wrote:uoksentelisinkohan

...you'll end up with something like

I wonder if I should run around without any particular destination
:D
Now there's some cardamom!

Jukka Aho
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Location: Espoo, Finland

Re: on tullut juostua

Post by Jukka Aho » Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:41 pm

j.petsku wrote:Thanks! So sounds like a rough approximation of the english "I've been doing X," (in response to something like, "what you been up to?"). So, indicating that the activity has been more or less habitual and is still continuing.
“Habitual” is a good word, I think. But phrasings such as tuli tehtyä [jotain], or on tullut tehtyä [jotain] also carry an air of “nonchalant abandon” with them: things kind of just “turned out” the way how they were just described... without much premeditation, planning or consideration... almost as if the speaker had been a passive observer of his own doings rather than the active subject steering things this way or that way.
j.petsku wrote:No, on tullut joustua maratonjuoksuja.

I've often wondered about this, because it seems that "olen juossut maratonjuoksuja" leaves room for interpretation that this happened many years ago, and the speaker has since quit.
Maratonjuoksu is a bit formal word for casual speech/writing. Usually you’d just say maraton.
j.petsku wrote:Could the construction in question have more of this "recent and ongoing" nature than the perfect tense? English speakers always want to say "olen ollut juoksemassa," which I know sounds bad...
– Mitäs olet puuhaillut viime vuosina?
– No mitäpä tässä. Pari maratonia on tullut juostua ja kolme lasta tehtyä. Talonkin rakensin. Entäpä itse?
j.petsku wrote:Also, is this construction common in speech?
Rather common, I’d say.
znark

j.petsku
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Re: on tullut juostua

Post by j.petsku » Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:46 am

Jukka Aho wrote:ja kolme lasta tehtyä.
:D "Nonchalant abandon" indeed! :shock:

I think I sense the nuance you mention...maybe a little bit like "joutua?"

Would you ever use a pronoun with such a phrase, like "Minulla on tullut opiskeltua aika paljon," or "Minun tuli jäätyä kotiin"?

sammy
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Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 2:38 pm

Re: on tullut juostua

Post by sammy » Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:45 am

j.petsku wrote:
Jukka Aho wrote:ja kolme lasta tehtyä.
:D "Nonchalant abandon" indeed! :shock:

I think I sense the nuance you mention...maybe a little bit like "joutua?"

Would you ever use a pronoun with such a phrase, like "Minulla on tullut opiskeltua aika paljon," or "Minun tuli jäätyä kotiin"?
Personally I don't think that would sound right... because it's a 'passive' construction. But apparently some people do use it that way, there are Google hits like...

minun on tullut viime aikoina mässäiltyä

minun on tullut mietittyä vaatekaapin sisältöä

... but there you go, natives do not write 'perfect' Finnish either (because strictly speaking it does not exist) :wink:


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